It is time ......

[StaffordJR]

""""""""It seems on seeing this, no-one really sees it…… Also one cannot expect to always be aware of it, as there is no ‘one’ to always be aware of it………………. We can even let go of hanging onto any ideas, even of wanting to be ‘enlightened’ as this is also just an idea… a concept………..

""""""""" And yet I sit here feeling like a ‘me’…… but that doesn’t matter either….it’s just the way it is sometimes……….""""""""" There is nothing to say.................All questions are ridiculous..................... """"""""""

Hi David & Yes Dear Friend Yes & I Also can't seem too shake off the me I thing, even though it's seen through as never been real !!!
I'm Happy You understand my job is keeping an eye on the Truth & to always make sure it's going that direction !!! Also I Love the conversation part as well !!! No One Home However Life still Does & Plays accordingly !?! It's so Amazing Wonderful & Mysterious !!!
Ok So I was wondering is there anything that's unclear or anything else You'd like too go over, it's seems as though You're Seeing This however You let me know & We'll go from there & Remember I'll still need those final questions answered, When You're Ready of course ?!? Sending Peace Love Life & Laughter Yours Truly Stafford

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[DavidB]

Ok So I was wondering is there anything that's unclear or anything else You'd like too go over, it's seems as though You're Seeing This however You let me know & We'll go from there & Remember I'll still need those final questions answered, When You're Ready of course.

Hi Stafford,
Yes my friend, I am still reflecting on those final questions and perhaps wondering if I really have the right to enter that part of the process yet?!?

But things are becoming clearer and I am feeling less stressed by the various constructions of the mind. I am starting to really see the 'self' (which doesn't really exist) pop in and out of existence as life goes on. Today my false sense of 'I' is feeling quite 'steady' behind the various scenes that play out in this life. 'I' am starting to realize that ''I do not really have to worry about how this life plays out too much, that it will probably find it's own course through events as it always has . It's a bit mind-blowing to think that in reality there isn't really anyone anywhere doing anything from the point of view of having a solid and real self!!! All living entities without 'selves', all taking them'selves' quite seriously and acting as if they have one!!! What a grand cosmic con-job, although it's a totally unorganized and spontaneous event of life!!!!

Will post more seriously tomorrow....

Sharing love, Dave.

[StaffordJR]

Ok So I was wondering is there anything that's unclear or anything else You'd like too go over, it's seems as though You're Seeing This however You let me know & We'll go from there & Remember I'll still need those final questions answered, When You're Ready of course.

Hi Stafford,
Yes my friend, I am still reflecting on those final questions and perhaps wondering if I really have the right to enter that part of the process yet?!?

But things are becoming clearer and I am feeling less stressed by the various constructions of the mind. I am starting to really see the 'self' (which doesn't really exist) pop in and out of existence as life goes on. Today my false sense of 'I' is feeling quite 'steady' behind the various scenes that play out in this life. 'I' am starting to realize that ''I do not really have to worry about how this life plays out too much, that it will probably find it's own course through events as it always has . It's a bit mind-blowing to think that in reality there isn't really anyone anywhere doing anything from the point of view of having a solid and real self!!! All living entities without 'selves', all taking them'selves' quite seriously and acting as if they have one!!! What a grand cosmic con-job, although it's a totally unorganized and spontaneous event of life!!!!

Will post more seriously tomorrow....

Sharing love, Dave.

Hi David,
I just want too say Everything You post is Right on Time & Love Each One
;~} =_= {~; I had a very long day & still getting used too working again, I just wanted to take the time to let you know You're doing Great & Yet it's not us doing anything ?!? Wow just Wow it's Still Very WTF for me or Whatever IT is answering this post ?!? Anyways Good night my Friend Sending Peace Love Life & Laughter Yours Truly Stafford

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[StaffordJR]

Hi David
Just wanted too post again. I was so Tired last post I don't think I knew what I was writing about Lol
So as I've read from Your posts this is clearer for You & No Worries as much for You about what's happening cuz of course we're not what we thought we were?. Nor doing the thinking of the thoughts about us ?!? Wow Amazing Right, Which of course the Word Amazing is Spelled with the Words A Maze !?! And people Wonder why we're Lost !!! If You Really look at This Whole thing, is There Any Real Way Too understand This so called Life Space Earth Infinity, Not I Dare Say !!! So what I'm trying too say is Relax & Enjoy the Ride cuz we sure are on One Hell of a Ordinary Mystical Journey with No One & No Where Too Go Lol talk soon my Friend & Sending Peace Love Life & Laughter Yours Truly Stafford

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[DavidB]

......of course we're not what we thought we were?. Nor doing the thinking of the thoughts about us ?!? Wow Amazing Right, Which of course the Word Amazing is Spelled with the Words A Maze !?! And people Wonder why we're Lost !!! If You Really look at This Whole thing, is There Any Real Way Too understand This so called Life Space Earth Infinity, Not I Dare Say !!!

Hi Stafford,
Thanks for your double post, that Maze bit really made me smile!!! Yes, it is all ridiculous but also 'just what it is' I guess. I think I should begin to answer the questions as best I can...... Do you mind if I just deal with the first tonight, I'm feeling knackered!!!

1.Is there a seperate entity, 'self', 'me', 'I', at all anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

My answer
The question is formed through words which have socially and historically formed meanings. When I look at a tea-cup I know that 'tea-cup' is just a convenient label and not 'what it really is'. In fact it isn't really any 'thing', it's 'thingness' depends on what a 'being' uses it for. An ant may see it / sense it as an obstacle with a slippery surface to be crossed. An angry wife may see it as a convenient weapon to throw at her husband when he spends all of their spare money on meditation books from Amazon. A sailor might bail out his sinking ship with it. It is called a 'tea-cup' because we choose to agree on a convenient label to make life easier to communicate with each other. It makes it easier to go and buy a 'tea-cup' from a 'shop', even if we then go and drink coffee from it! (Although bear in mind an Ant isn't really an ant and a sailor isn't really a sailor!!!).

Like the 'tea-cup' we have learned to use the words 'self', 'I', 'me' to make life easier. But if you reflect on these words in 'your' mind, they seem to become blurry and dissolve. 'I' am 'me'....... This seems ridiculous. There appears to be something that's doing something, that has some kind of awareness, that I call 'me'..... but in reality it's all very dubious and questionable. It's convenient to refer to 'I', 'me' and 'myself', but they appear to just be labels to try to make sense out of the completely unknown. It completely screws up 'getting enlightened', 'self-realized' etc etc....... who gets enlightened? Who can get 'self-realized'. Maybe the most we can know, is that we cant really know anything because the duality of the 'Knower' and the 'Known' is a false / faulty understanding. .......... Any attempt to name, label or try to describe our situation is totally fucked...... But that's good, because that's where the eternal mystery is. (Although the concept of 'mystery' is also a false construction.......

I think I have been taught and conditioned to 'feel separate', to believe in the story of the 'I'.... To wonder what / who 'I' was in a last life and what 'I' will be like after this coming death......... It's just that it doesn't really have to be seen in that way, there is no 'you' moving through time..... there is no time moving at all......... There is just an energy that we call 'thought' (we call it that out of convenience because we don't know what it is and never can really know because there's no 'knower').

In conclusion...... there is no conclusion.......the world and ourselves are constructions of something we call mind.... but even that as a description is totally bullshit!

with love,

Someone known as Dave................

[DavidB]

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

'I' cannot remember the birth process because it appears that 'I' was not there at the time! A being, (labelled a 'human being'), was born and had the genetic information passed on from it's parents. Over a period of time this 'being' responded to a 'name label' attached to it and was taught language which it could begin to use to communicate it's needs etc. The language it ('I') began to learn was not only a communication tool, but it also contained biases, preferences, patterns etc. Part of the language process began to assist create internal structures that supported the concept of individuality and duality; the 'me' and 'you'.... 'me' and 'it'...... 'I' and 'them'. Over 'my' childhood this was constantly reinforced and I began to learn 'stories' about who 'I' was, who my parents were etc etc. Due to the feeling of 'I' being apparently physically embodied, it sensed a feeling of separateness. From this separateness (and what felt like a loneliness), 'my' sense of 'self' began to feel even more intense. The world around 'me' appeared to support the idea that the human condition was a lonely and separate one; Also that 'we' (human beings) were special...... Various stories told to 'me' seemed to support ideas of 'separateness' and of 'self-hood'. I was taught that to 'strive', 'be strong' and to 'succeed' were good things, but many of the messages were mixed up. Mixed up messages, as well as clear ones, went into the melting pot of developing the shape of a psychological 'self'. Even the word 'self' assisted in the belief of there being such a thing. Once the sense of a 'self' was created and believed in, 'I' then tried to understand what my 'self' was. I used pre-existing models to try to understand this problem and my learned preferences also determined the nature of my search. 'My' search would initially involve a God, as it was a narrative / story 'I' had already been exposed to. 'I' would also be a 'wounded hero' in this search, as I felt the difficult weight of 'self-hood' as being painful and as also the 'heros' of the stories I had taken on, also appeared 'wounded'. 'My' own self-story began to become more complicated and in so doing, my sense of 'self' began to feel even more real. At the present time 'I' am getting an opportunity to see this process of 'self-creation'......... The process has not stopped, but there is a greater clarity.

Hope this in some way answers Q2 Stafford!!! Please hit 'me' with a Zen stick and tell me I'm full of shit!!!

X

[StaffordJR]

"""""""" In conclusion...... there is no conclusion.......the world and ourselves are constructions of something we call mind.... but even that as a description is totally bullshit!

with love,
Someone known as Dave................ """"""

""""""""Hope this in some way answers Q2 Stafford!!! Please hit 'me' with a Zen stick and tell me I'm full of shit!!! """"""""

Hi David, Yes on Question 1 Clearly BS & Yes on Question 2 as well as 1 You're a little Constipated my Friend Lol... Too much Explanations & Definition makes this a Belief system to understand & it's nothing like that, if I'm making sense, The Clearer This IS the less Words need Too Be used !!! You're Seeing this Clearly so keep IT Simple in What's actually Happening & answer in that way !?! Please let me know if I'm Being Clear & if I'm understanding Your answers Clearly !?! Sending Peace Love Life & Laughter Yours Truly Stafford


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[DavidB]

Too much Explanations & Definition makes this a Belief system to understand & it's nothing like that, if I'm making sense, The Clearer This IS the less Words need Too Be used !!! You're Seeing this Clearly so keep IT Simple in What's actually Happening & answer in that way !

1. The 'I' thought appears to come and go. It is especially present when I try to focus on things like typing these words. As 'I' focus to type these words I feel there is someone doing it, but on closer examination there is just the 'focussing' of mind.... there is no 'I' behind it....no entity to call 'me'...... just focusing. This is what is happening now... It feels as if someone is here, but on inspection there are just patterns of behavior, but there's no one at home. There seems to be a looking out of 'nothingness'. There never has been anyone at home and never will be.

[StaffordJR]

Too much Explanations & Definition makes this a Belief system to understand & it's nothing like that, if I'm making sense, The Clearer This IS the less Words need Too Be used !!! You're Seeing this Clearly so keep IT Simple in What's actually Happening & answer in that way !

1. The 'I' thought appears to come and go. It is especially present when I try to focus on things like typing these words. As 'I' focus to type these words I feel there is someone doing it, but on closer examination there is just the 'focussing' of mind.... there is no 'I' behind it....no entity to call 'me'...... just focusing. This is what is happening now... It feels as if someone is here, but on inspection there are just patterns of behavior, but there's no one at home. There seems to be a looking out of 'nothingness'. There never has been anyone at home and never will be.

Hi David, Yes Beautifully Simple I'm Loving IT & Thanks my Friend so Glad You understood by Keeping Your eye on the Truth keeps it Simple !!! Looking forward towards Your next questions ! ¡ ! Sending Peace Love Life & Laughter Yours Truly Stafford

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[StaffordJR]

Dear David I Hope I didn't Offend You & I Totally Understood You on Your First Two answers & You weren't wrong, It just needed too be more too the point which You are Doing & I get it with Words, its just What's coming out at The Moment Right Lol... OK so I'm All in this for Your Clarity & Direct Seeing The Truth of This !!! So if the IS Anything You need clarifying or just want too talk please let me know David & Thank You for Your Kindness & Patience Sending Peace Love Life & Laughter Yours Truly Stafford

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[DavidB]

Hi Stafford,
No problem friend, I broke this question down so as to not get too entwined and complicated.

Explain in detail what the illusion of the separate self is

,

Given that the thing I call 'my body' appears to be separate from other bodies and the mind that I call 'my mind' also appears separate, it feels that 'I' am a 'separate self'. I have even been taught words / language to support the belief that there is a 'me' and a 'you'. When I reflect more deeply on this, the 'I' that I think I am is not actually locatable and it appears to be merely the product of language and handed-down ideas. It is not that 'we are all one', but it is that there isn't really anyone here at all, just ideas that come and go out of focus. Lots of ideas, lots of concepts, but nothing really behind them................

when it starts and how it works from your own experience.

It appears to have started when I was left on my own as a very young child. The isolation led to feelings of fear and loneliness. A feeling of difference emerged....'I' and 'other'. Language began to compound this process.... I was named 'David' which was a different name to those around me. I felt I was David, different to 'mum' and 'Dad'. Then there was the beginning of experiencing preferences....'David doesn't like the whites of eggs....'...'David like to read'..... These ideas from others led to a clustering of ideas in the mind I call 'I' and ideas began to cluster about who 'I' was.

Describe it fully as you see it now

.

It is bloody ridiculous. For all intents and purposes I appear to 'have' and to be 'a self'. 'I am Dave'...... 'I like eggs'..... 'I like certain things'. But I cannot actually locate a permanent 'I' inside myself. The idea that I am an 'I' or 'self' appears to be only that...just an idea..... The 'I' I am today is slightly different to the 'I' of a year ago and very different to the 'I' of twenty years ago. The body sits here and types, the mind thinks about the questions; Every few moments the idea of 'me / Dave' doing it arises and then passes. When the idea of 'Dave' doing, goes out of focus, who is doing? It is just 'mind' doing.

Sending love,

Dave.

[StaffordJR]

Hi Stafford,
No problem friend, I broke this question down so as to not get too entwined and complicated.

Explain in detail what the illusion of the separate self is

,

Given that the thing I call 'my body' appears to be separate from other bodies and the mind that I call 'my mind' also appears separate, it feels that 'I' am a 'separate self'. I have even been taught words / language to support the belief that there is a 'me' and a 'you'. When I reflect more deeply on this, the 'I' that I think I am is not actually locatable and it appears to be merely the product of language and handed-down ideas. It is not that 'we are all one', but it is that there isn't really anyone here at all, just ideas that come and go out of focus. Lots of ideas, lots of concepts, but nothing really behind them................

when it starts and how it works from your own experience.

It appears to have started when I was left on my own as a very young child. The isolation led to feelings of fear and loneliness. A feeling of difference emerged....'I' and 'other'. Language began to compound this process.... I was named 'David' which was a different name to those around me. I felt I was David, different to 'mum' and 'Dad'. Then there was the beginning of experiencing preferences....'David doesn't like the whites of eggs....'...'David like to read'..... These ideas from others led to a clustering of ideas in the mind I call 'I' and ideas began to cluster about who 'I' was.

Describe it fully as you see it now

.

It is bloody ridiculous. For all intents and purposes I appear to 'have' and to be 'a self'. 'I am Dave'...... 'I like eggs'..... 'I like certain things'. But I cannot actually locate a permanent 'I' inside myself. The idea that I am an 'I' or 'self' appears to be only that...just an idea..... The 'I' I am today is slightly different to the 'I' of a year ago and very different to the 'I' of twenty years ago. The body sits here and types, the mind thinks about the questions; Every few moments the idea of 'me / Dave' doing it arises and then passes. When the idea of 'Dave' doing, goes out of focus, who is doing? It is just 'mind' doing.

Sending love,

Dave.

Hi David, Great Love how You're Simply Breaking everything down & keeping IT Simple !!! I wanted too get back to You before I went work today. I'll post again tonight my Friend & Yes Great work definitely all mind, Who's mind I Can't Say Lol I'll post again tonight my Friend & Sending Peace Love Life & Laughter Yours Truly Stafford

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[DavidB]

Hi Stafford,
loving the artwork, especially the second one without the writing.....Thank-you!
I thought I would go for 'number 'three' question.

How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started the dialogue?Please report from the past few days.

How does it feel to see this?

Seeing this is confusing for the thinking process although at the same time it is also liberating. For all intents and purposes it feels as if 'I' along with others have a 'self', although then with examination, this does not bear up to scrutiny. Seeing this has perhaps left me with a little less anxiety as the ramifications are to me, that nothing really matters that much to get really stressed over.......... (But that doesn't mean that this is clear all of the time!)..... the truth of this seems to come and go out of focus depending on how tired I am etc). Overall, seeing this is exhilarating...... there are no real solid selves to be found in all of this world.....

What is the difference from before you started the dialogue?

I have had glimpses of this before, but entering into this dialogue put pressure on me to 'look' more closely, it has been an aid to 'looking'. I now feel I have a tangible feeling /understanding of 'not having a self'..... I feel that I have stepped over a line into the world of 'no self'. It's strange but the dialogue has helped me work a bit harder towards clarifying things, given I am normally quite a lazy person!

Please report from the last few days

Oh shit! I went to my girlfriend's family party at the weekend and found myself being overly honest about how 'I' saw life! Given that they are from a catholic family and some still had a strong sense of god and a religious based sense of love, I found myself suggesting that our beliefs seem to be based on stories we have been told and introduced to by others, especially when we are young. Today i am experiencing some self-loathing for being too vocal and perhaps antagonistic towards their Catholicism ..... My self-loathing feelings seem to have a strong sense of 'self' about them, but every now and then I can see that it is just the universe playing itself out. My ideas are not really 'mine', what 'I' think of as 'I', is just a playing out of a different perspective of the universe.

Cheers Stafford,

Luv from Dave.

[StaffordJR]

Hi Stafford,
loving the artwork, especially the second one without the writing.....Thank-you!
I thought I would go for 'number 'three' question.

How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started the dialogue?Please report from the past few days.

How does it feel to see this?

Seeing this is confusing for the thinking process although at the same time it is also liberating. For all intents and purposes it feels as if 'I' along with others have a 'self', although then with examination, this does not bear up to scrutiny. Seeing this has perhaps left me with a little less anxiety as the ramifications are to me, that nothing really matters that much to get really stressed over.......... (But that doesn't mean that this is clear all of the time!)..... the truth of this seems to come and go out of focus depending on how tired I am etc). Overall, seeing this is exhilarating...... there are no real solid selves to be found in all of this world.....

What is the difference from before you started the dialogue?

I have had glimpses of this before, but entering into this dialogue put pressure on me to 'look' more closely, it has been an aid to 'looking'. I now feel I have a tangible feeling /understanding of 'not having a self'..... I feel that I have stepped over a line into the world of 'no self'. It's strange but the dialogue has helped me work a bit harder towards clarifying things, given I am normally quite a lazy person!

Please report from the last few days

Oh shit! I went to my girlfriend's family party at the weekend and found myself being overly honest about how 'I' saw life! Given that they are from a catholic family and some still had a strong sense of god and a religious based sense of love, I found myself suggesting that our beliefs seem to be based on stories we have been told and introduced to by others, especially when we are young. Today i am experiencing some self-loathing for being too vocal and perhaps antagonistic towards their Catholicism ..... My self-loathing feelings seem to have a strong sense of 'self' about them, but every now and then I can see that it is just the universe playing itself out. My ideas are not really 'mine', what 'I' think of as 'I', is just a playing out of a different perspective of the universe.

Cheers Stafford,

Luv from Dave.

Hi my Dear David, Thanks for The Compliment on the Art !!! The First one is the Second One, I just put it through a Kaleidoscope art app !?! Doesn't it Represent how one thing can Look Totally Like Something different with another Perspective spun on IT ?!? OK Great Posts & I'm talking my Time with these my Apologies feeling a little something ?!? It Might Be I asked these questions a little soon for You or it just How this is Dawning for You I'm not Sure :) ???
OK so I Like Too, if You Would Kindly go into what the difference between personal & actual Thanks my Friend & Yes sometimes conversation with others about This is a Shot in the Dark Lol but it's also a Sign the Personal self is Trying too find a foothold on its on self by making thing out of this Which You can't Nobody can make this into a Teaching NoBody Too Teach Nothing so Nothing Too get & That's Why We can only Guide in Seeing This & That's IT !!! Hope that's Clear & Very Good Work my Friend Sending Peace Love Life & Laughter Yours Truly Stafford

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[DavidB]

Hi Stafford,

Could you just clarify the question you asked please my friend,

OK so I Like Too, if You Would Kindly go into what the difference between personal & actual

Do you mean between my perception of it and the actual? Or do you mean the next question?

Luvi'n it all,

Dave