Knowing

[taylor]

This "i" morphs into a doer ,a chooser ,a thinker... having never learned that it would have all worked without a "person", but we fall under the illusion that there is an "i" who decides and controls everything

Tell me how this is experienced just in direct experience?

okay that whole answer was all coming from mental activity, to be honest, there is no direct experience of this content regarding the question...

.[2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.

Describe it fully as you see it now

no idea how it started ..can only look at it now.. the illusion of the separate self happens when the content of thoughts is believed to be true.. .in the believing comes the separation ..the believer of the content of thoughts hence ,there are now two separate objects ...the believer and the belief
for instance ...tea or coffee hhmmm ..thought says tea then another thought" i made a good decision " then if that thought is believed there is a separation... the chooser and the chosen
or rather someone criticizes me and rather than just acknowledging what was heard attention goes to thought which is saying" that was mean" then another thought" my feelings are hurt"... believing the thoughts creates division.

.This "i" has a terrible time having to run the world,fix everything,fighting what is...all phenomena is perceived through the eyes of the personal self .nothing is fresh, no questions are asked and there is no peace.Having to purport an illusion 24-7
is very taxing to the bodymind.

again, Tell me how this is experienced just in direct experience? -->

there was misunderstanding with that ...it can't possibly happen in direct experience!
again, Tell me how this is experienced just in direct experience? -->

How can this "I" have a terrible time?
What are these "eyes of the personal self".
Who or what is "Having to purport an illusion"?
And what is a "bodymimd"?

none of this above can happen in direct experience.. the above is just a story about the illusory self(had gone off the track)
there is no "i" to "have" a terrible time
there are no" eyes of the personal self" because the personal self is an illusion
in direct experience there is NO ONE to purport an illusion
bodymind was just a thought
so good to just answer from direct experience and not thought(was tearing hair out)
thank you Ve xx

[Verananda]

so good to just answer from direct experience and not thought(was tearing hair out)

;-)
yes, it is good to see! no problem with thought, but it is good to see what IS thought and what is the real experience!

the illusion of the separate self happens when the content of thoughts is believed to be true

Who or what is believing? What makes a thought been believed?

.. .in the believing comes the separation ..the believer of the content of thoughts hence ,there are now two separate objects ...the believer and the belief

do this "two separate objects", "the believer and the belief" and the separation realy exist (can it be found as direct experience) or is this all thought?

Love Ve

[taylor]

the illusion of the separate self happens when the content of thoughts is believed to be true
Who or what is believing? What makes a thought been believed?

oops believing is just another thought and a thought been believed is just another thought
.

. .in the believing comes the separation ..the believer of the content of thoughts hence ,there are now two separate objects ...the believer and the belief
do this "two separate objects", "the believer and the belief" and the separation realy exist (can it be found as direct experience) or is this all thought?

gee thanks for simplifying !!THIS IS ALL JUST THOUGHT :)
THANK YOU

[Verananda]

Are you 100% clear that there is no "Taylorself"?

Do you feel clear about thought and the content of thought?

Love Ve

[taylor]

Are you 100% clear that there is no "Taylorself"?

yes

Do you feel clear about thought and the content of thought?

yes
thanks for your time and patience Ve
xxtaylor

[Verananda]

Hi Taylor,

can you please elaborate a bit more Q3 of the final questions with more detail please:
What does that mean?

3) How does it feel to see this?

it is good to see the truth

What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.

there was mass confusion to clarity ..today seemed so less complicated!

So how is life after?
What has changed and what hasn’t since we started this conversation?
What is the main difference from before? Is seeking still going?

Love Ve

[taylor]

3) How does it feel to see this?

it was surprisingly obvious
thoughts flooding in "is that it "" could'nt be "
relief that it was seen that there was no separate self
next day doubting thoughts appearing followed by more thoughts denying thoughts

So how is life after?
What has changed and what hasn’t since we started this conversation?
What is the main difference from before? Is seeking still going?

life after seeing no separate self hasn't changed much at all... the following day it was just "oh yeah"
but there is a loosening which is evident in behaviour towards others... a slight awe watching cooking happening
gratefulness... also some seeking still... watching thoughts.. knowing that thoughts are not me, that the body is not me .
staying with direct experience is freeing even though there are still lots of stories :)

can you please elaborate a bit more Q3 of the final questions with more detail please:
What does that mean?

this should have been at the top of the page( oops)nervousness popped up and fear that there might not be more detail than expected
love taylor xx

[Verananda]

next day doubting thoughts appearing followed by more thoughts denying thoughts

what happend then? Are there still these doubting and denying thought?

also some seeking still...

what is this seekig about? What does the thoughts around say?
Is it a seeking or more a curiosity?

knowing that thoughts are not me, that the body is not me

what then is "me"?

Love Ve

[taylor]

next day doubting thoughts appearing followed by more thoughts denying thoughts
what happend then? Are there still these doubting and denying thought?

yes

also some seeking still...
what is this seekig about? What does the thoughts around say?
Is it a seeking or more a curiosity?

been looking at other conversations and not really feeling the openness that others felt after seeing through separate self
maybe wait awhile and look at expectations when they arise

knowing that thoughts are not me, that the body is not me
what then is "me"?

just a thought:)
looking forward to hearing from you Ve xx

[Verananda]

Are there still these doubting and denying thought?
yes

elaborate please - what do these thoughts say?

been looking at other conversations and not really feeling the openness that others felt after seeing through separate self
maybe wait awhile and look at expectations when they arise

Looking at others ist the best way for feeding the seeking bug!
There are "others" who report about spectacular experiences, a lot of gurus promissing great states of awakening ...
it is a never ending full time job to walk this way!
how much of these stories can be known as true?
how much is our own interpretation of it (thought)?
Each process is individual.
Look (without comparing with others): What is missing here and now in your experience?

maybe wait awhile and look at expectations when they arise

yes, when expectations arise, tell me about!

You told me: Are you 100% clear that there is no "Taylorself"? --> yes
how can you be 100% sure? What makes you sure?
Isn't it a contradiction to be 100% sure and then having doubting and denying thought?
I woun't say something about right or wrong - it is more like an invitation to explore a bit around this.
Be curious.
Report about!

Love Ve

[taylor]

Are there still these doubting and denying thought?
yes
elaborate please - what do these thoughts say?

thoughts like"it just couldn't have been that simple!" there must be more to liberation than that"

Looking at others ist the best way for feeding the seeking bug!
There are "others" who report about spectacular experiences, a lot of gurus promissing great states of awakening ...
it is a never ending full time job to walk this way!
how much of these stories can be known as true?

none of these stories are true.... only actual experience is real.. thank you!!
how much is our own interpretation of it (thought)?
yep just thoughts only thoughts

Look (without comparing with others): What is missing here and now in your experience?

there is absoloutely nothing missing ( big smile)
maybe wait awhile and look at expectations when they arise

yes, when expectations arise, tell me about!

okay.. thank you sooooo much joy arising :) :)
lots of love coming your way xxx

[Verananda]

maybe wait awhile and look at expectations when they arise

ok, so lets wait a few days and tell me what happens.

it is also good to observe in daily live whar changes, what is same! please tell me about!

Love Ve

[Verananda]

Hi taylor,

how’s it going?
tell me about your last days and expectations that came up if there were any ....!

Love Ve

[taylor]

Dear Verananda
Please forgive me for dropping out …. I think I’d fooled myself and was too embarrassed to reply
It’s been two years and I’ve been looking at threads here for the past six or more months
So if you feel like taking this up again , I’d be grateful…..
sorry

[taylor]

Dear Verananda
Please forgive me for dropping out …. I think I’d fooled myself and was too embarrassed to reply
It’s been two years and I’ve been looking at threads here for the past six or more months
So if you feel like taking this up again , I’d be grateful…..
sorry