Confusion is a good sign! Seriously. We can’t decode long established beliefs that we have take for granted all our lives, that our whole culture and worldview is based upon, without becoming confused first. It’s OK to feel confused.
All I have is my experience.
Yes. What is there but experience, including the experience of thoughts that say ‘this belongs to me’.
Finger pointing to heart or behind eyes. That’s all i got. It seems like another impossible task.
Right, so it’s ‘you’ pointing, with ‘your’ finger, but it’s not possible to point at ‘you’. Interesting no?
….this could be a more accurate description of the self…
Let’s be clear, we are not trying to arrive at an accurate definition of a self here. It’s not an academic exercise. We are trying to find - literally find it - the thing referred to when you say ‘I’ or ‘me’. There’s a big difference between these two approaches. The first assumes there is a thing called ‘self’ that needs defining in the first place - it’s an exercise in defining an idea - ‘ here’s an idea and here’s what it means’. The second is simply a search or quest to find something in direct experience and it’s the whole key to this process. Can we find this thing called a self, I, me in direct experience.
A university seems most like the most accurate analogy of the idea of me, because its a collation of lots of things, constantly moving and evolving …
Again, this is an analytical response, maybe because of the way I phrased the question. Consider this - take away the students from the university for ever. Is it still a university? No way. Take away something pretty important from this ‘collation’ of you, let’s say the eyes. Is it still you? Halve the IQ. Still you? Do you see what I mean? Can you imagine a blind, clueless Batman? It’s still Batman isn’t it? Which one is more like the way you perceive yourself in everyday real life, rather than in an analytical, academic exercise?
No feeler can be found, just feeling. There’s a sense that the feeler is in the feeling, like there’s no distance. And obviously the thought “Its me! I am the one!”
Yes! There’s no distance between feeler and feeling, that’s a lovely description. Then the thoughts come and start separating it into this and that. That’s what thought does. But before thought, no distance.
you’re not going to find anything but meat, but this meat could tell you how this sense of self works.
OK, so if there is only meat, is there a self or not? Do you care about how this ‘sense of self’ works - is that why you are here? If there’s a ‘sense of self’ what does it feel like - what kind of sensation is it?
…that seems like evidence of some subconscious, non experienced intelligence…
Sure - there is intelligence. But is it the intelligence of a self? Did you know that it has been shown that certain animals have what you referred to as a ‘sense’ of self - mainly other great apes, chimpanzees and orang utans for example. The test involves seeing if they can recognise their reflection in a mirror.
… A self isn’t really anything substantial if its always wrong and going back on itself.
Great that you see this. Do you see how as we challenge this idea of self we start to back away, deciding that maybe it doesn’t have the kinds of power we normally attribute to it - It’s not fully aware, it doesn’t have enough information, isn’t in full control etc etc. These begin to sound like excuses. Try defining where the boundaries of control for self are. What can self control and what can it not?
i feel a bit daunted with how much there is to reply to, and confused with with seeing theres the thought of me and awareness but not knowing what is supposed to not exist.
I hear you. Sometimes it’s useful to come at this from several angles at once - it stops us getting bogged down in analysis. Many of the questions I ask have yes/no answers. Don’t worry about what is ‘supposed’ to be the case. This is about finding stuff out for yourself, doing the maths, it’s not about learning by rote. For now, let’s just clear up one thing:
What is this thing that you have been referring to when you say ‘I’ or ‘me’? Not the ‘accurate’ definition of self but what you really feel you are. I think there are some clues in what you have written to date, like;
What even is it that we all think we are, but infact are not?
And
…. (this could be a more accurate description of the self. ) Not an entity…..
