Who am I?

[dreamer]

Hi Tara

The question is: What are the seer of all of that?
Do something control the movements in the present moment?

:) Vivi

[GREEN TARA]

Do something control the movements in the present moment?

I sat with this for a long time and the honest answer is I don't know

tara

[GREEN TARA]

Hi Vivi,

The controller is nowhere to be seen at all
but the question still comes up
is the controller the one that is looking for who is controlling and therefore it can’t see itself ?.
aaaaaaaaaargh I'm going round and round in circles.

Tara

[dreamer]

Yes Tara
It is going in circles.
You see that you can not find any 'I', you can not find anyone looking and you can't find anybody controlling movements. Still the though comes up: Who is I, who is looking, who is controlling. Ups - did I just say thought?
You do nor exist, looking happens, movement happens, thinking happens. No one, nobody, nothing, doing it. The questions you ask is a mindtrap - in order to find something in control when 'you do not exist' a subtle identification in order to prevent - what? Dissappearing? Loss of control? ??

Are you the thinker of thoughts?

What do you feel about this?

Warm regards Vivi :)

[GREEN TARA]

Hi Vivi,

Just a note to say I need some more time to make sure I am clear about how I feel.
English is not my first language and it takes me a long time to articulate how I feel.
Thanks
Tara

[dreamer]

Hi Tara

Good, glad to know
English it not my first language too - recognize :)

Take your time. To be accurate and honest is important
:)

Vivi

[GREEN TARA]

Hi Vivi
I am finding it really difficult at the moment to put into words how I feel but I’ll try.

All I could say with honesty is I find myself during the day in one of two states: one is when all of me that is body, mind, sensations, feelings are involved in the present moment and in the activity I am doing. In this state there are no thoughts about who is doing this activity there is just what is happening.
The other state is when suddenly there is an awareness of the body, mind, sensations, feelings being involved in the activity and all of that is being recognized as it is happening and then the thought comes up who is witnessing this activity.
When I put the attention on this witness then I only find space. This space sometime is felt as localized just behind me and sometimes it expands and then there is the feeling that everything is arising in this space.

in order to find something in control when 'you do not exist' a subtle identification in order to prevent - what? Dissappearing? Loss of control? ??

I looked at this and I don’t seem to find any fear of losing control or disappearing.
Just a desire that comes up when there is witnessing to know who is witnessing.

Are you the thinker of thoughts?
What do you feel about this?

I don’t know who the thinker is. All I know is there are thoughts and sometimes there is an awareness of thoughts coming and going.

Thanks
Tara

[dreamer]

Good Tara!

As you just descriped you experiences, I would say you have seen there is no I. Thoughts, doings, feelings, sensations, tc. happens, no one doing them, sometimes there are awareness of it, sometines there are not.

What do you feel the thought: "Who is looking/controlling" is about?

Vivi

[GREEN TARA]

Hi Vivi,

Before you asked me the question what do you feel the thought:"Who is looking/controlling" is about?
Life was like this:
I’d be engaged with something then suddenly there is an awareness of that and the thought comes up who is aware of this activity? then the mind starts on a quest to answer the question. I didn’t see that the question is another thought and just allow it to pass. The mind hangs on to the question as if it is a special thing not just another thought.
But since you asked the question this what has been happening: I’d be engaged with something then suddenly there is an awareness of that and the thought comes up who is witnessing, then it the question just passes like all other thoughts.
The mind doesn’t hang on to the question and when the question is dropped then there is only awareness being aware. Then I feel sense of spaciousness.

Much love
Tara : )

[dreamer]

Tara!

:) the loop has vanished...

If you feel that it's clear that there is no personal I, what are you?

Vivi

[GREEN TARA]

I am an ever changing collection of body, feelings, sensations, emotions and thoughts all operated by existence itself.

tara : )

[dreamer]

Ha Ha, Tara! If you feel ready to the final questions, please answer as detailed and honest as you can.

(1) Is there a "me," at all, anywhere, in any way, shape, or form? Was there ever? 
(2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts, and how it works.
(3) How does it feel to see this?
(4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion?
(5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

:) Vivi

[GREEN TARA]

Hi Vivi,
thank you so much for your help. i've tried to answer the questions as honest as I can.

(1) Is there a "me," at all, anywhere, in any way, shape, or form? Was there ever?

There is no me and there has never been a “me” that much is clear.

(2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts, and how it works.

The separate self is a thought supported by feelings, emotions, sensations and memories.
I don’t remember when it started probably when I was a child.
How it works…..The sense of individuality gave the personality a false sense of security.
That” I” can change things and “I” can control what would happen in “my life” and therefore no harm would come to “my body”.
Also believing in separate self meant that there is a possibility to get rid of the things I don’t like and bring about what I like and if I could work harder then my life would become happier and peaceful forever. Over the years the belief that “I” as a separate individual is responsible for this life became thinner and thinner until now where it dissolved.
In the past when I heard the word illusion I thought that this world doesn’t exist at all. And now I can see that this world is as real as it gets the illusion was in the belief that there was someone living in it.

(3) How does it feel to see this?

Life is exactly as it has always been, nothing at all changed. No bells ringing or Angels singing, just this. However there is the sense of more spaciousness around and a felt relaxation as the false identity lost its grip.

(4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion?

I am not sure if I totally understand the question if it is to describe the illusion or seeing through it.
If I want to describe how it feels like to see through the illusion of a separate me I’d say :
It is seeing things for what they are without a story about them. It is seeing the story and knowing that there is no me to defend, no me to get hurt and no me to suffer.
It is the feelings of being freed from the prison of the false sense of control and in allowing life to just be.

(5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

For a long time there has been the recognition that body, mind, feelings and sensations are not the “me” however there was the misidentification and a mistaken belief that the sense of existence that is clearly felt is an indication of a separate me. Once that has been seen that it is just existence and it is not my existence the veil dropped.
The seeing happened when the question “who am I?” what is this that is aware? Was recognized as just another thought and a very clever tool the mind uses to keep the sense of the “false me” going.


My deepest love and gratitude to you Vivi : )

[GREEN TARA]

I wish to add one more thing. Although the illusion of a separate me is clearly seen I still find myself using words like ....I....me...mine but they come with different feelings then before. They are seen as a way to function rather than away to assert individuality. I don’t know if that makes any sense.
Again thank you

[dreamer]

Dear tara
I find your answers beautifull!

I will show your answers to the other guides. Three of them has to confirm that they see you have seen through the 'I'-thought for you to be 'blued' and get access to the , until now, hidden threads here on LU - and to the aftercare groups on Facebook- if you want to.

Now first to the confirmation proces.

Warm regards Vivi