Jens freedom

[Vivien]

Hi Jen,

You did a very nice looking! You see, you’re progressing nicely, one step at a time.

Now let’s get back to the notion of a chooser and choice.

Look very-very closely during the day, when decision seemingly happens (almost every minute). Then you’ll have plenty of opportunity to observe what is really going on.

Pay very close attention to thoughts. Decision seemingly happens in thoughts. Look very carefully how thoughts about a chooser, or choice or decision appear.

For example, when you sit in front of your computer, how is the decision made when to move the hands to type?
How is the decision is made which finger to move when typing?
How is the decision exactly made what to type?

When finished, just sit there. And see if there is a decision to sit there a bit longer, or to stand up to do something else.
How is the decision made to stay sit or to stand up?
What is making the decision to stand up?

When eating, observe very carefully. How is it chosen which piece of food to put onto the fork and eat next?
How is it decided EXACTLY to choose the pea, the rice, the carrot (or whatever is on the plate) to be the next?
What is the ‘thing’ that is making the decision about the next piece of food?

When driving, observer very carefully how is the decision exactly made to turn left or right?
When braking, how is the decision made to press the brake pedal?

When dressing up, how is the decision is made what clothes to choose?
Observe the movements of dressing up. How is the decision is made when to lift the arms or legs, and which clothes to put on first?
What is making the decision? - Find the location

When showering and towelling, how is the decision made where to move the hands, and in which sequence towel the body?

When shopping in a supermarket, observe the thought processes how the decision is made which line to go in?

Let me know what you find.

--

Is it totally clear that there is no such thing a chooser?
Is it totally clear that there is no such thing as choice or free will?
If not, please write some examples when it seems to be otherwise.

Vivien

[Jenisfree]

Hi Vivien!
I was out at sea for a couple days ,so difficult to write, but lots of time to LOOK!

For example, when you sit in front of your computer, how is the decision made when to move the hands to type?

It’s not known. It just seems to happen.

How is the decision is made which finger to move when typing?

It just seems to happen.

How is the decision exactly made what to type?

It’s as if a thought about it comes after it already happens. But no decider.

When finished, just sit there. And see if there is a decision to sit there a bit longer, or to stand up to do something else.

No, these things just happen automatically.

How is the decision made to stay sit or to stand up?

It’s just happening without a decision maker.

What is making the decision to stand up?

Nothing… it seems to be automatic.

When eating, observe very carefully. How is it chosen which piece of food to put onto the fork and eat next?

It just happens, without choosing.

How is it decided EXACTLY to choose the pea, the rice, the carrot (or whatever is on the plate) to be the next?

It is not decided.

What is the ‘thing’ that is making the decision about the next piece of food?

Nothing and no one. No-thing.

When driving, observer very carefully how is the decision exactly made to turn left or right?

It’s all automatic

When braking, how is the decision made to press the brake pedal?

Happens by itself.

When dressing up, how is the decision is made what clothes to choose?

There is nothing that chooses or decides. It just happens.

Observe the movements of dressing up. How is the decision is made when to lift the arms or legs, and which clothes to put on first?

Same answer as above answers.

What is making the decision? - Find the location

There is nothing deciding and nothing to locate.

When showering and towelling, how is the decision made where to move the hands, and in which sequence towel the body?

It is not, it is automatic.

When shopping in a supermarket, observe the thought processes how the decision is made which line to go in?

It all happens automatically.

Let me know what you find.

When LOOKING at all of these questions, and my direct experience is that EVERYTHING is happening automatically. There is this very clever deception going on that appears that there is a ME deciding everything that happens relative to me., or "others" are deciding for "themselves" But there is no me, or others, which means no decision maker(s), which means no chooser(s). This can be seen when it is looked at in a broader sense; how could all that is happening being under anybody’s control or thought or action or decision; how could this all be orchestrated by anyone?
-

Is it totally clear that there is no such thing a chooser?

Yes

Is it totally clear that there is no such thing as choice or free will?

Yes
I

f not, please write some examples when it seems to be otherwise.

What I said above would apply, in that there is the appearance that there is a ME or a YOU or an US that make decisions about things, which can be very very convincing. But once you see through this, it becomes obvious that this is not true. It is only an appearance.

Love
Jen

[Vivien]

Hi Jen,

You did a very nice looking. Now we can move on.

Let’s start to investigate the body and sensations. The illusion of the self is not just simply coming from thoughts, but also from the belief that “I am the body” or “I have a body” or that this or that sensation is ‘me’ or the location of the ‘me’, or that this or that sensation is happening to ‘me’. So the thought label ‘this is me’ and the appearing sensations are welded together, creating a ‘sense of self’.

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.
Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside?
If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc) before replying.

Vivien

[Jenisfree]

Good morning Vivien. For some reason, I am not getting an email alert anymore when you respond, but I am checking frequently! I have contacted the administrator, but what they suggested did not work. Just wanted you to be aware!

Can it be known how tall the body is?

No

Does the body have a weight or volume?

No

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

No

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?

No, it is all continuous

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

No, it is all continuous

Is there an inside or an outside?

No

If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?

There is no “inside”

If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

There is no “outside”

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?

A perception of a contained “self”

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Awareness of experience and sensations

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc) before replying.

I looked while doing most things for a full day, and what I found was that it is all just awareness of sensations with no boundaries. The present moment is reality, and it is not controlled by anyone or anything. It just IS. It all just happens.

Love,
Jen

[Vivien]

Hi Jen,

For some reason, I am not getting an email alert anymore when you respond, but I am checking frequently! I have contacted the administrator, but what they suggested did not work. Just wanted you to be aware!

Thank you for letting me know. You did a nice looking, btw.

V: What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?

J: A perception of a contained “self”

Yes, but we can also say that word ‘body’ point to the sensations.

Close your eyes, and scan through the body. Look for every sensation that is present right now. You will find, that as you scan the body, a mental image ‘shows’ the location of attention, so to speak.

If you look very carefully, you’ll find that there are some parts where the sensations are really strong, but there are other areas where there is hardly any sensation going on, or even nothing. So even the sensations what are labelled as ‘body’ cannot be experienced as a whole. I mean you cannot feel all ‘parts’ of the body at the same time. But the ‘mind’ constructs a mental image and with the label ‘body’, and the belief that the body is a whole unit, always present, always available. But this cannot be further from the truth. Body as such exists only as a construct. Can you see this?

It is all just awareness of sensations with no boundaries.

Later, we will investigate awareness.

V: Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?

J: No, it is all continuous

Locate an area of the body where it seems that clothing can be felt. Focus on the sensations only. Ignore all thoughts and images.

Put the attention to the sensation labelled ‘skin’ (where the clothing touching the skin). Localize it.
Now localize the sensation labelled ‘clothing’.

How many sensations are there?
Is there one sensation for the skin, and another one for the clothing?
If so, where does one sensation ends and the other starts?

Can ‘clothing’ be really felt in AE at all?
Is there an AE of ‘clothing’?
Can ‘skin’ be really felt at all? Is there an AE of ‘skin’?

V: Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

J: No, it is all continuous

Repeat the above exercise, just now with the chair.

How many sensations are there?
Is there one sensation for the butt, and another one for the chair?
If so, where does one sensation ends and the other starts?

Can ‘chair’ be really felt in AE at all?
Is there an AE of ‘chair’?
Can ‘butt’ be really felt at all? Is there an AE of ‘butt’?

Vivien

[Jenisfree]

Hello Vivien,
I am seeing the emails again!

Body as such exists only as a construct. Can you see this?

Yes, this is clearly seen.

Locate an area of the body where it seems that clothing can be felt. Focus on the sensations only. Ignore all thoughts and images.

Put the attention to the sensation labelled ‘skin’ (where the clothing touching the skin). Localize it.
Now localize the sensation labelled ‘clothing’.

How many sensations are there?

Just one, with no separation

Is there one sensation for the skin, and another one for the clothing?

No, it is all the same

If so, where does one sensation ends and the other starts?

There is no ending or beginning. It is one.

Can ‘clothing’ be really felt in AE at all?

No

]Is there an AE of ‘clothing’?

No, there is not.

Can ‘skin’ be really felt at all? Is there an AE of ‘skin’?

No.

Repeat the above exercise, just now with the chair.
How many sensations are there?

One

Is there one sensation for the butt, and another one for the chair?

No, there is no distinction.

If so, where does one sensation ends and the other starts?

There is no beginning or ending.

Can ‘chair’ be really felt in AE at all?

No

Is there an AE of ‘chair’?

No, there is not.

Can ‘butt’ be really felt at all? Is there an AE of ‘butt’?

No, there is no AE of “butt”

Love,
Jen

[Vivien]

Hi Jen,

I am seeing the emails again!

Great!

With eyes closed, put one of the hands on a desk or a table. Pay attention only to the pure sensation.

Does the pure sensation itself suggest in any way that the hand is doing the touching?
Does the pure sensation itself suggest in any way that there is a hand (subject) that touching the table (object), or is there only touching?
When all mental images and thoughts are ignored is there a ‘hand’ or a ‘table’ at all, or is there only touching (pure sensation)?

Can an ‘INHERENT FEELER’ be found? Can a 'feeler' be located?
Would anything that is suggested as the ‘feeler’, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

Now, let’s see if there is a connection between a visual image and sensations.

1. Close the eyes and hold up one hand. Pay attention only to the felt sensations ‘of the hand’.
2. Open the eyes, and now observe the hand by looking only.
3. While looking at the hand, pay attention to the felt sensations.

Repeat 1 to 3 as many times as needed and investigate…

Normally we believe that the sensation is coming from the sight, the ‘object’ seen (hand).
But if you look, is there any link between the sensation and the sight? In other words, is the sensation ‘coming from’ the sight (labelled as hand) or only thoughts and mental constructs link them?

Can you see that both the ‘visual sight’ and the sensation appear simultaneously but ‘separately’, meaning that none of them is coming from the other or contained by the other?

So they just appear equally, ‘beside’ each other without any hierarchy or link between them?

You can repeat the exercise with all of body parts. For the head you can use a mirror. What do you find?

Vivien

[Jenisfree]

Dear Vivien,
Here are my answers!

With eyes closed, put one of the hands on a desk or a table. Pay attention only to the pure sensation.

Does the pure sensation itself suggest in any way that the hand is doing the touching?

No

Does the pure sensation itself suggest in any way that there is a hand (subject) that touching the table (object), or is there only touching?

Only touching.

When all mental images and thoughts are ignored is there a ‘hand’ or a ‘table’ at all, or is there only touching (pure sensation)?

Just pure sensation with no hand or table.

Can an ‘INHERENT FEELER’ be found? Can a 'feeler' be located?

No. None.

Would anything that is suggested as the ‘feeler’, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

No, it would only be an idea/concept/thought.

Now, let’s see if there is a connection between a visual image and sensations.

1. Close the eyes and hold up one hand. Pay attention only to the felt sensations ‘of the hand’.
2. Open the eyes, and now observe the hand by looking only.
3. While looking at the hand, pay attention to the felt sensations.

Repeat 1 to 3 as many times as needed and investigate…

Normally we believe that the sensation is coming from the sight, the ‘object’ seen (hand).
But if you look, is there any link between the sensation and the sight? In other words, is the sensation ‘coming from’ the sight (labelled as hand) or only thoughts and mental constructs link them?

Thoughts and mental constructs linked to them.

[]Can you see that both the ‘visual sight’ and the sensation appear simultaneously but ‘separately’, meaning that none of them is coming from the other or contained by the other?

Yes, I can see this.

So they just appear equally, ‘beside’ each other without any hierarchy or link between them?

Yes.

You can repeat the exercise with all of body parts. For the head you can use a mirror. What do you find?

That it appears that body parts are the “cause” of the sensations but they are not. There doesn’t need to be a “body part” for there to be a sensation. It’s only known as “head” , “hand”, “foot” when we perceive it as such.
This last question feels like “on the brink” of something, something just about to be discovered, but I can’t quite see it yet. But I know you are guiding me to it. Vivien, Thank you so much for what you are doing to help me see.
Love,
Jen

[Jenisfree]

Hi Vivien,
I want to write one more thing that I left out of the last post back to you. A few posts ago you asked if I could see if the body is a mental construct, and i can see this. So is not EVERYTHING then a mental construct? These last exercises that you had me do with the hand and sensations and other body parts is bringing this into my awareness. OK, I just wanted to write this because I posted before this came to me.
Thank you!
Jen

[Vivien]

Hi Jen,

Thank you so much for what you are doing to help me see.

You’re very welcome :)

That it appears that body parts are the “cause” of the sensations but they are not. There doesn’t need to be a “body part” for there to be a sensation.

What is the difference between a sensation labelled ‘body part’ and the ‘other sensation’ that is the result of the first sensation labelled ‘body part’?

Take your hand. Feel it.
There is a sensation present. Is this sensation inside the sensation of ‘hand’? Or caused by the sensation of ‘hand’?

Here is an even deeper investigation of the body. Please follow each step, don't leave out any. Take your time. Don't move to the next step until the previous one is clearly seen. Repeat the exercise several times.

Stand in front of a bigger mirror.

(1) First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.

(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror?
Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?

(3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?

(5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror.

Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?
Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all?
Or are there only colours and shapes?

(6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen.

Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).

Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

(8) Start to walk slowly.

Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

(9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

Vivien

[Jenisfree]

Hello Vivien!
I would like to spend a bit more time with these questions, please. I think more thoroughbtime with these is key.

Also just mentioning-I know we don't work together on, feelings "the story", etc etc but wanted to report that I'm having some big "stumbling blocks" come up such as headaches, fear and anxiety which may have something to due with that I will be starting new job on Monday. Perhaps not. Anyway, I will work on these things with the counselor, but just wanted you to be aware of this. I am trying to LOOK at these occurrences when they happen.
Thank you so much for your dedication.
Love,
Jen

[Vivien]

Hi Jen,

Take your time with the exercise, it’s not for a beginner’s, so be thorough.

And regarding the fear and anxiety: One of the reasons why we looked at emotions is to have you some tools to deal with strong emotions whey they arise. So that’s perfectly all right to talk about those with the counsellor, but at same time when the unpleasant emotions surge, you can investigate them.

First, try to localize the sensation that seems to the ‘me’ who is having the emotions. When you localized the sensation that seems to be the ‘me’ ask:

What makes this sensation ‘me’?
Is this a sensation or the ‘self’?
Is this sensation the one that is feels the ‘fear’ / ‘anxiety’?
What makes this sensation so convincing?

You can also look at the fear or anxiety directly by localizing the sensations that is labelled to be the ‘fear’ or ‘anxiety’. And asking:
Is this a sensation or ‘fear’?
How is it known that this sensation is fear?
Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that it’s fear?

Love,
Vivien

[Jenisfree]

Vivien,
Thank you so very much for your guidance and patience!
Love,
Jen

[Jenisfree]

Dear Vivien,
Thank you again for your suggestions with the emotions. These are excellent tools, and most of the physical and emotional "pains" for the most part vannished. And thank you for the extra time on answering these next questions. I did the exercises multiple times over, over a couple of days and this is what I find:

What is the difference between a sensation labelled ‘body part’ and the ‘other sensation’ that is the result of the first sensation labelled ‘body part’?

Nothing at all.

Take your hand. Feel it.
There is a sensation present. Is this sensation inside the sensation of ‘hand’? Or caused by the sensation of ‘hand’?

Neither. It cannot be differentiated.

Here is an even deeper investigation of the body. Please follow each step, don't leave out any. Take your time. Don't move to the next step until the previous one is clearly seen. Repeat the exercise several times.

Stand in front of a bigger mirror.

(1) First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.

(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror?
Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?

There is no connection. Just the habit of thought that suggests the connection.

(3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

None.

(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?

No connection. Again, just the thoughts that make the connection.

(

5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror.

Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?

No.

Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all?

No, the image itself does not.

Or are there only colours and shapes?

Yes, just shapes, colors. There is a pull from the mind that “wants” to make it into something else, ie a body, but this is just an apparency.

(6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen.

Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

Just thoughts.

(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).

Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

None can be found.

(8) Start to walk slowly.

Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?

Sensations only.

Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?

No

Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?

Just thoughts about walking

Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?

Only thoughts about a body.

Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

No, this concept cannot be found

(9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

There is an image labelled “room” and appearing sensations, which cannot be localized.

This is the most important work and questions that I could ever be answering because I know this is leading me to freedom. You are guiding me to freedom. Words can never be enough to thank you.

Love
Jen

[Vivien]

Hi Jen,

This is the most important work and questions that I could ever be answering because I know this is leading me to freedom. You are guiding me to freedom. Words can never be enough to thank you.

You’re very welcome :) You did a great looking!

Now, let’s investigate the notion of awareness or consciousness, or in other words the knower.

When it’s seen that a seer, taster, smeller, feeler, thinker, etc. cannot be found, the IDENTIFICATION often GOES to the SEEMING APPEARANCE OF A SELF-EXISTENT, SELF-AWARE AWARENESS, which is the KNOWER OF EVERYTHING THAT APPEARS.

So the identification with the body and the senses (feeler, hearer, thinker, etc) is replaced with a subtle form of identification, “I am that which is aware”…. So there is still some sort of separate entity which is aware and holds and knows all experience (object). And the identification with awareness is an excellent hiding place for the separate self.

Does this belief has come up for you “I = awareness”?
I don’t know if you have this assumption that “ I = awareness”, but nevertheless, let’s investigate this.

In English, awareness is a noun, not a verb. Nouns imply agencies, or entities.
But can such thing be found as an independently existing awareness?

Stop for a moment now and take a thought. Be aware of the presence of the thought.
Can a thought be separated from the knowing or awareness of it?
Try your best to separate the two from each other. What happens?

Is there a dividing line between the thought and the knowing or awareness of it?
Can you find the line where the thought ends and the knowing of it starts?

Can you find a thought without the knowing of it?
Can you find knower or awareness without any object (like thought, sensation, sight, sound, taste, smell)?
Repeat this exercise many times during the day. Experiment not just only with thoughts, but also with mental images, sounds, taste, etc. Let me know how it went.

Vivien