Jens freedom

[Jenisfree]

Hello Vivien,

“but my mind wants to convince me…’ – Is this really true?

No, this cant be true. There is no way to prove or define or locate "mind" or me.

“but my mind wants to convince me…’ – what does the word ‘me’ refer to in this sentence?

The illusion of a me.

Where is this ‘me’ located exactly that could be convinced?

I can't find or point to "me".

How does the ‘mind’ doing the convincing exactly?

I can't define it or describe how mind convinces.

What is the actual experience of ‘convincing’?

The actual experience of convinceing, this cant exist as an experience because it is content of thought. It's inside the container of a thought and anything inside the container of a thought is illusion.

What is the actual experience of ‘mind’? Where is it exactly?

Mind cant exist as an experience because it cannot be located. It too is the contents of the container of a thought.

“because the rest of the time, I think I am an I” – where is the ‘I’ exactly located that thinks that it’s an I? Show me
“but then I remember that I am not” – What is it exactly that is doing the remembering?
Where is the thing located that is remembering?

It or "I" can't be located It's a concept. The thing doing the remembering is a concept too.

Can a ‘mind’ really want anything?
Where is the ‘wanter’ located exactly? Show me

No a mind which is illusion cannot want anything. I can't show you or point to a wanter.

You are describing the ‘mind’ as if it were a REAL ENTITY. As if it could do things, like wanting or convincing. But is this so?

No the mind cant' want or convinvce, therefore it is not a real entity.

Who or What wants to create a separate self?
Where is this something called “It” located exactly, that has volition and desire to create?

The illusion of the separated I. It thinks it resides in the head or between the eyes of this body mind called Jen.

What is the actual experience of guilt?

Guilt is mistakenly attached to the sensations in the solar plexus in this mind/body.

Look into all parts and all corners of the body, especially the chest and the head. The eyes, behind the eyes, forehead, throat, face, back of the head.
Also look into the thoughts. Is the ‘I’ in the thoughts? Is it inside the sensations? In the seeing? In the hearing?

Well there is SOMETHING there but I cant say or prove that it is "I". But there is something there, in all of those "places" that wants to exist, but it is not one I. "It" is just there! It cannot be defined or narrowed or nailed down to one thing but it is THERE!

Open your eyes, where is your finger pointing?

My finger points EVERYWHERE. not to one place.

I think I got the order of the responses mixed up, sorry. You asked if I could see when I redid the 5 minute exercise about "other" and I do see that even though I defined them as other they all have to do with "me" in some way or another. Any thought of any "thing" does and will if I think I am an I, is what I see. But I am not an I. I see myself as everywhere. Yes, I do experience this.
I havent been actively doing my Course in Miracles, and have not done any other reading since I have been doing this inquiry with you. I just mentioned ACIM becasue it is something I had studied for 25 or more years.

I am glad you are not fed up with me. This must be why you are a guide! :) Thank you, Vivien.

Jen

[Vivien]

Hi Jen,

V: Who or What wants to create a separate self?
Where is this something called “It” located exactly, that has volition and desire to create?

J: The illusion of the separated I. It thinks it resides in the head or between the eyes of this body mind called Jen.

“I THINK it resides in the head or between the eyes” – You THIINK… so let’s examine if this thought can stand the scrutiny of direct experience.

I’d like you to focus on this spot in the head or between the eyes, where the seeming ‘I’ seemingly resides.
Examine the actual experience.

What can you find? A sensation?
Can you find a thought there inside the head or between the eyes?
What is it there exactly?
And how is it known what is there exactly? Is it a sensation? Smell? Taste? Sound? Sight? Thought?

V: Look into all parts and all corners of the body, especially the chest and the head. The eyes, behind the eyes, forehead, throat, face, back of the head.
Also look into the thoughts. Is the ‘I’ in the thoughts? Is it inside the sensations? In the seeing? In the hearing?

J: Well there is SOMETHING there but I cant say or prove that it is "I". But there is something there, in all of those "places" that wants to exist, but it is not one I. "It" is just there! It cannot be defined or narrowed or nailed down to one thing but it is THERE!

Look around inside the body very thoroughly. Can you find anything there OTHER THAN SENSATIONS?

If you can find anything other than sensations, please describe it to as much detail and precision as you can.
Describe its exact location, shape, form, texture, with which of the 5 senses it’s detected. I want to know everything about it.

V: Open your eyes, where is your finger pointing?

J: My finger points EVERYWHERE. not to one place.

It seems that there is a identification with the body.
So the body as sensations are present.
A thought label “this is me” is also present, pointing to the body.

It seems that I = body – is this so?

Vivien

[Jenisfree]

Hello Vivien!

I’d like you to focus on this spot in the head or between the eyes, where the seeming ‘I’ seemingly resides.
Examine the actual experience.
What can you find? A sensation?

Yes, a sensation of awareness of sounds, feeling the breeze, feeling the cushion under me.

Can you find a thought there inside the head or between the eyes?

I can’t really “find” one there. I can say that one might “pass through”, but it can’t be isolated or captured.

What is it there exactly?

I can’t find anything there.

And how is it known what is there exactly? Is it a sensation? Smell? Taste? Sound? Sight? Thought?

There is nothing there permanently. It is ever changing with sensations. It’s like it’s the filter of where sensations go through, but it’s more like a “point”, but even that can’t be located.

Look around inside the body very thoroughly. Can you find anything there OTHER THAN SENSATIONS?

No, this is the only thing that is there. I cannot find anything else there except sensations.

If you can find anything other than sensations, please describe it to as much detail and precision as you can.

There is nothing else to describe, other than “awareness” of these sensations that happen. It’s like an “opening”.

Describe its exact location, shape, form, texture, with which of the 5 senses it’s detected. I want to know everything about it.

This is not possible to do, because there is nothing there. No location, shape form, texture.
It’s not a “thing”. It’s more like a receiver, an opening, but even using the word “it” implies that there is something to define.

It seems that I = body – is this so?

Yes it seems that I = the body. Like the body is the container of all these sensations. This is how it seems.

Jen

[Vivien]

Hi Jen,

V: Can you find a thought there inside the head or between the eyes?

J: I can’t really “find” one there. I can say that one might “pass through”, but it can’t be isolated or captured.

If you cannot find the ‘I’ inside the head or between the eyes, then how on earth do you know that it’s there?
Just because a thought say so?

Thoughts ‘say’ all sorts of things. But do thoughts KNOW what they are ‘talking about”? Or rather thoughts are KNOWN?

V: And how is it known what is there exactly? Is it a sensation? Smell? Taste? Sound? Sight? Thought?

J: There is nothing there permanently. It is ever changing with sensations. It’s like it’s the filter of where sensations go through, but it’s more like a “point”, but even that can’t be located.

“It’s more LIKE a ‘point’, but even that can’t be located” – see that I emphasise the word ‘LIKE’. ‘Like’ is just an analogy. A ‘like’ is not a real thing!

If the ‘point-like’ thing cannot be found and located, than how is it known that it’s there at all?
Just because there is an appearing thought with the content “it’s more like a point”?
Or because there is an arising mental image ‘showing’ a ‘point-like’ thing?

The thought “it’s more like a point” – is not the actual experience (AE) of a ‘me’, not even of a ‘point’. It’s the AE of a thought only. Can you see this?

The mental image “of a point” – is not the actual experience (AE) of a ‘me’, not even of a ‘point’. It’s the AE of a thought only. Can you see this?

V: Look around inside the body very thoroughly. Can you find anything there OTHER THAN SENSATIONS?

J: No, this is the only thing that is there. I cannot find anything else there except sensations.

If you cannot find anything else than sensations ‘inside’ the body, then WHY BELIEVING that there is there something else, a ‘me’ there?

If you look into an empty jar, and you cannot find anything there, then would you assume that maybe there is something hiding inside the empty jar? A ‘point-like’ thing maybe? Although, a ‘point-like thing’ cannot be found, but it’s there. What is there, other than nothing?

There is nothing else to describe, other than “awareness” of these sensations that happen. It’s like an “opening”.

Again: “ LIKE an ‘opening’” – it’s an analogy again. It’s the content of a thought. It’s the content of a mental image. But is there REALLY A REAL OPENING? Or just thoughts and mental images about an opening?

This is not possible to do, because there is nothing there. No location, shape form, texture.
It’s not a “thing”. It’s more like a receiver, an opening, but even using the word “it” implies that there is something to define.

Please read you above comment what I quoted several times. Do you see the trick?

So this ‘thing’ doesn’t have a location, shape, form, texture, it’s not even an ‘it’. Then how on earth do you that it exists at all?

What you’re describing is like a ‘ghost’. You’re trying to describe NOTHING. You’re trying to find an IMAGINATION. You’re trying to find an IDEA. You’re trying to find a FANTASY.

When you look for your key, or a cup, or your phone, you have no problem whatsoever to locate it, to describe its exact borders, where the key ends and the table starts, you can describe its colour, shape, size, texture, even its taste. You have no doubt about what you are looking for, and when you found it, you have no doubt whatsoever that what you've found is really what you were looking for.

If you’re convinced that the self or ‘me’ REALLY exists, it couldn’t be harder to find it than a key or a cup, or your phone.

Yes it seems that I = the body. Like the body is the container of all these sensations. This is how it seems.

OK. Let’s say that the body is the container of all sensations (which isn’t true either, but let’s accept this as a conventional view for now).

So let’s say that the body is the container of all sensations. All right. But WHEN and HOW these sensations have become a ME?

If only sensation can be found, then where is the ME? Inside the sensations? Covering the sensations? Next to the left or right, above, bellow, in front, behind a sensation?

How do you know that these sensations are ME?

Vivien

[Jenisfree]

Hi Vivien,

If you cannot find the ‘I’ inside the head or between the eyes, then how on earth do you know that it’s there?
Just because a thought say so?

I’m not saying that I know it is there. I don’t think there is an I there. I have said over and over that it doesn’t exist. I’ve looked and looked and looked and I do not find an I.

Thoughts ‘say’ all sorts of things. But do thoughts KNOW what they are ‘talking about”? Or rather thoughts are KNOWN?

No, thoughts do not KNOW what they are talking about. A bunch of thoughts and feelings have come together that I apparently BELIEVE much of the time are me. Right now they are thoughts of annoyance, impatience, I want to be right, I want to get this” righ”t, how long is this going to go on, but THEY ARE NOT ME. NONE OF THEM ARE ME. Desires, feelings, wants, all swirling around to attach as ME. BUT THEY ARE NOT. Why not? Because they are just thoughts.

If the ‘point-like’ thing cannot be found and located, than how is it known that it’s there at all?
Just because there is an appearing thought with the content “it’s more like a point”?
Or because there is an arising mental image ‘showing’ a ‘point-like’ thing?

No, the point like thing cannot be found OR LOCATED and I’m not saying that it is there at all. It is just another thought. Another thought about trying to create a me out of nothing. No, there is not an arising image of a point.

The thought “it’s more like a point” – is not the actual experience (AE) of a ‘me’, not even of a ‘point’. It’s the AE of a thought only. Can you see this?

YES I DO see this. The thought “it’s more like a point” is not the actual experience of a me. It’s the actual experience of a thought and only a thought.

The mental image “of a point” – is not the actual experience (AE) of a ‘me’, not even of a ‘point’. It’s the AE of a thought only. Can you see this?

YES I DO SEE that the mental image of a point is not the actual experience of a me or even a point.

If you cannot find anything else than sensations ‘inside’ the body, then WHY BELIEVING that there is there something else, a ‘me’ there?

I keep saying that I DON’T believe there is a me there. But these sensations such as feelings and thoughts want to attach together, or come together in some way to create a ME. The THOUGHT AND FEELING of, “oh, I am never going to get this”, and “I must be “wrong” because I cant get this, and the DESIRE to have Vivien say, “great you are getting this”. All these stupid thoughts and feelings coming together to “create” a me. They are not me! The approval, the wanting the “good” feelings, they are not me. I’ve thought they are me, but I can see they are not. I’ve believed for so long that they ARE me, and now they are finally being challenged, and I’m not finding it easy. I am finding myself wanting to defend these feelings and thoughts as me. I KNOW they are not me but am having a hard time letting go of it! Here is honesty! Here is the feelings that I want to cling to. I want to be done with this, this THING that creeps back in as me, which is nothing but an illusion.

What is there, other than nothing?

THere is nothing there.

Again: “ LIKE an ‘opening’” – it’s an analogy again. It’s the content of a thought. It’s the content of a mental image. But is there REALLY A REAL OPENING? Or just thoughts and mental images about an opening?

No, there is not really a real opening. I see the trick of me using “like” this and “like” that. It’s more attachment. More trying to define a nothing. More words. More labels. Further removed from reality. Reality is what is THERE .

So this ‘thing’ doesn’t have a location, shape, form, texture, it’s not even an ‘it’. Then how on earth do you that it exists at all?

The thoughts, the feelings, the sensations I want to attach to/cling to as a me. I sense these things as a ME. But these are illusions which can only be another illusion of a me. This is where I am stuck. I see it, I see it , but can’t get past it.

So let’s say that the body is the container of all sensations. All right. But WHEN and HOW these sensations have become a ME?

They cannot.

If only sensation can be found, then where is the ME? Inside the sensations? Covering the sensations? Next to the left or right, above, bellow, in front, behind a sensation?

There is not a me because of sensations. I have wanted to believe that these sensations, feelings, thoguhts are me.

How do you know that these sensations are ME?

I DO NOT KNOW THAT THEY ARE ME, and not saying they are. I used to believe them, but have been mistaken. There is no me. Its just a bunch of thoughts/feelings/sensations. Period. I'm not sure what else I am supposed to say.
There is a feeling of not getting anywhere with this inquiry. A feeling of sadness that I am stuck here forever. This is what feels true right now. I know intellectually that there is not a me, but I am still not free of it. It’s the feelings mostly that make me feel stuck. Feeling like a little kid and I don’t know what to do anymore. It feels sad and lost and defective; like I’ve hit a wall. These are just feelings, I know, and not really who I am

Jen

[Vivien]

Hi Jen,

I’ve read your comments. I cannot reply properly now, since I’m in a very different time zone than you are, so it’s bedtime for me. But I didn’t want to leave with no reply for a whole day (for you), so I just give you a quick reply now, and I’ll comment properly when I wake up.

I understand your frustrations and feelings. I know that it can be hard sometimes, when it seems that things are not progressing. And the conditioned reactions can come bubble up, creating some painful reactions. We will investigate emotions soon.

I also want to tell you that what you’re going through right now (the feeling of not getting it) is totally normal, and happens almost everybody at certain stage of the guiding process. For some, it might happen more than once. The success of seeing through the self is depend on how you react to this frustration. If you persevere, and don’t give it up, then you can get through this and progress forward. The only way to ‘fail’ is to giving it up.

And it will take as long as it will take. Probably for a few more weeks, maybe a month or two, who knows. It doesn’t matter how long it takes, the only thing that matters is to keep continue looking. Sooner or later it will click. I have no doubt about that. You are very close to it. And even when it clicked, we will still continue looking, going further and deeper. And don’t forget, I’m here with you, I am here to help you, as long as it takes.

Love,
Vivien

[Jenisfree]

Dear Vivien,
Thank you so much for your response. It brought tears to my eyes. There was a big shift from my head to heart while writing what you answered and even more after reading your email.
I will persevere. Thank you so much for being there with me, for guiding me in your way. I am committed to this until I can see. I will never quit!
Love,
Jen

[Vivien]

Hi Jen,

I’m glad that my words could help.

I KNOW they are not me but am having a hard time letting go of it! Here is honesty! Here is the feelings that I want to cling to.

OK, this is self-clinging. When it’s present, then usually there is some kind of story hiding behind it, about the negative consequences of seeing through the self. Look for this story. What it’s about?

The thoughts, the feelings, the sensations I want to attach to/cling to as a me. I sense these things as a ME. But these are illusions which can only be another illusion of a me. This is where I am stuck. I see it, I see it , but can’t get past it.

The reason why it’s difficult is because when thoughts about ‘I’ arise, the accompanying sensations are not noticed only as sensations. So the thoughts, mental images and sensations are welded together into a bundle. So you have to separate them, and see them for what they really are one-by-one. We will come back to this when looking at emotions. But anyway try to identify and separate them from each other.

I’m not saying that I know it is there. I don’t think there is an I there. I have said over and over that it doesn’t exist. I’ve looked and looked and looked and I do not find an I.

Yes, you said many times that there isn’t an ‘I’, that it cannot be found. But you might say this in one comment, but in the next you’re talking from the perspective of a separate self. And my job is to point this out to you. That although at one moment you see that there is no self, but in the next moment the content of thoughts is believed to be real. So I will continue to point this out to you to help you to see through the illusion completely.

thoughts do not KNOW what they are talking about. A bunch of thoughts and feelings have come together that I apparently BELIEVE much of the time are me.

Read your above comment again. So, it’s seen that thoughts don’t know anything. All right.
But in the next sentence “I apparently BELIEVE much of the time are me.” – So this sentence states that there is a ‘me’ who could believe that the thoughts are me. So there are thoughts about a ‘me’, and ‘ME’ who could believe the thoughts about me. Do you see this?

So what is it that is believing that thoughts are me?
Please don’t just look at thoughts, and say that this is just another thought. Rather try to FEEL and locate the sensation where this ME seemingly resides. When you’ve found the location of the ‘me’, (in the chest, or head, or behind the eyes, or throat, or wherever it is), focus on this sensation and ask the question:
“Is this sensation the self?”
“Is this sensation the believer?”

But these sensations such as feelings and thoughts want to attach together, or come together in some way to create a ME. The THOUGHT AND FEELING of, “oh, I am never going to get this”, and “I must be “wrong” because I cant get this, and the DESIRE to have Vivien say, “great you are getting this”. All these stupid thoughts and feelings coming together to “create” a me.

Yes, this is how the illusion is created. So locate the sensation that seems to be the ‘me’. Then keep the focus on the sensation, and ask the questions:
“Is this sensation is the one who will never going to get this?”
“Is this sensation is the one who is wrong?”
“Is this sensation wants Vivien to say you are getting this?”

Although intellectually it’s clear to see the falsity of the above assumptions, but it’s not enough to really see through the illusion, since it FEELS LIKE AS IF I AM the SENSATION. That’s why I’m asking you to focus directly on the sensation, and target the questions directly to the sensation so with each look the link between the two lessens. You might have to do this many-many times. When I’m caught up in a story, I still do this, until the link is broken. But it might come back later. But with each looking it gets weaker and weaker.

They are not me! [thoughts] The approval, the wanting the “good” feelings, they are not me.

This sentence although says that thoughts are not me, but still it implies that there is a ‘me’, although the ‘me’ is not the thoughts. Can you see this? So look carefully.

What is this ‘me’ that are not the thoughts? Where is the location of this ‘me’?
Ask: Is this sensation the ‘me’ who knows that thoughts are not me?

Vivien

[Jenisfree]

Hi Vivien,
Thank you for your reply, and new questions! I would like to request a little bit more time to answer, as I am still on the boat, which means unpredictbility in terms of time schedule/freedom with my time. "I" feel that these questions are key (well, they ALL are!), so would like to request a little more time to respond. These are getting to something deeper....
Thank you, thank you for your dedication to helping me see.
Love,
Jen

[Vivien]

Hi Jen,

No problem. I'm looking forward to your replies. Take your time, don't rush. If you need 2 days (or more) to be very thorough, that's all right too.

Love,
Vivien

[Jenisfree]

Hello Vivien,

Look for this story. What it’s about?

Being afraid that if I see through the self, I will realize I am not really spending my life the way that I want to and instead am forfeiting my own desires for someone elses.
Afraid that I will leave those people and because I’ve left them I’ve hurt them. Afraid to be me, even though I really want to. It’s like I “owe” it to the others. The illusion of self thinks it needs other and certain “selves” to be, and needs to certain things like have a job, earn money, be nice, be agreeable. But all this is ridiculous anyway, because this “self” that wants to escape and thinks it has to do all these things isn’t even real. It wants to escape from nothing; it IS nothing and does not exist. And if this “it” did escape where would it go? Nothing escaping from nothing. I am seeing this now. Seeing that seeing through the self doesn’t really change anything at all. This IT, this ME is nothing.

So there are thoughts about a ‘me’, and ‘ME’ who could believe the thoughts about me. Do you see this?

Yes, I do see this. What I said just above addresses this.

So what is it that is believing that thoughts are me?

A concept.

“Is this sensation the self?”

No, it’s just a sensation.

“Is this sensation the believer?”

No, there is no believer.

“Is this sensation is the one who will never going to get this?”

No, it is just a sensation.

“Is this sensation is the one who is wrong?”

No it is just a sensation.

“Is this sensation wants Vivien to say you are getting this?”

No, it is just a sensation.

This sentence although says that thoughts are not me, but still it implies that there is a ‘me’, although the ‘me’ is not the thoughts. Can you see this? So look carefully.

Yes I see this. What I said implies that there is something other when I say, ‘They are not me! [thoughts] The approval, the wanting the “good” feelings, they are not me.’ What I said implies, THEY are not me, but SOMETHING else is, which is not true, because there is nothing else.

What is this ‘me’ that are not the thoughts? Where is the location of this ‘me’?

It is nothing and nowhere.

Ask: Is this sensation the ‘me’ who knows that thoughts are not me?

No it is only sensation. It just is.

Love,
Jen

[Vivien]

Hi Jen,

Being afraid that if I see through the self, I will realize I am not really spending my life the way that I want to and instead am forfeiting my own desires for someone elses.
Afraid that I will leave those people and because I’ve left them I’ve hurt them. Afraid to be me, even though I really want to. It’s like I “owe” it to the others. The illusion of self thinks it needs other and certain “selves” to be, and needs to certain things like have a job, earn money, be nice, be agreeable. But all this is ridiculous anyway, because this “self” that wants to escape and thinks it has to do all these things isn’t even real. It wants to escape from nothing; it IS nothing and does not exist. And if this “it” did escape where would it go? Nothing escaping from nothing. I am seeing this now. Seeing that seeing through the self doesn’t really change anything at all. This IT, this ME is nothing.

This was beautiful to read. At the beginning how thoughts depicted an unpleasant and fearful future. But at some point, there was a realization that there is nothing that could escape, and that seeing through the self doesn’t change anything. Beautiful. :)

And really, it doesn’t really change anything, it’s rather a shift in perception, like with these images bellow. As if you were seeing only in one way for your whole life, and now there’s a shift, and you can see from a different perspective. But you can still see the original, old version too. From now on, you can switch back and forth between the two.




And those possible scenarios projected into the future, might or might not happen. And it actually doesn’t depend on the presence or absence of the self, since the self has never been there.

So let’s look at emotions, what they really like. Bring up an emotion, feel it, and let’s examine what is really going on.

An appearing ‘emotion’ like ‘fear’ or ‘happiness’ has three ‘components’:

(a) a pure bodily sensation, like contraction or relaxation
(b) a mental label stuck to (layered over) the sensation, like “this is fear” or “this is contraction in the stomach” or “unpleasant” or “I am happy”
(c) and simultaneously appearing mental images (pictures) about a certain body parts, like picture about the stomach or the chest

So when an emotion is present, identify these three components, and investigate them:
Does the pure sensation suggest in any way that this is ‘sad’, ‘happy’, ‘uncomfortable’, ‘pleasant’ or ‘unpleasant’, ‘bad’ or ‘good’?
Or ‘happy’, ‘sad’, ‘good’ or ‘bad’, ‘uncomfortable’, ‘pleasant’ or ‘unpleasant’ are just mental labels on the pure sensation?
Does the pure sensation have any innate attributes, or is it totally NEUTRAL?
Is there REALLY ‘sadness’ or ‘sorrow’ or ‘suffering’, or are there only thoughts about ‘sadness’ or ‘suffering’?

So if you look very closely, you’ll see that there is neither sufferer, nor suffering. There are only thoughts ABOUT a sufferer and suffering. Can you see this?

Vivien

[Jenisfree]

Good morning, Vivien,
Thank you for your latest response. Yes, I can see both of the pictures from two different perspectives. An old woman, and a young lady. A rabbit and a duck. These are just shifts in perception.

Does the pure sensation suggest in any way that this is ‘sad’, ‘happy’, ‘uncomfortable’, ‘pleasant’ or ‘unpleasant’, ‘bad’ or ‘good’?

No they are just labels.

Or ‘happy’, ‘sad’, ‘good’ or ‘bad’, ‘uncomfortable’, ‘pleasant’ or ‘unpleasant’ are just mental labels on the pure sensation?
Does the pure sensation have any innate attributes, or is it totally NEUTRAL?

Yes, these are just mental labels which are neutral, because these labels cannot/do not have any innate attributes.

Is there REALLY ‘sadness’ or ‘sorrow’ or ‘suffering’, or are there only thoughts about ‘sadness’ or ‘suffering’?

These are just thoughts with no reality.

So if you look very closely, you’ll see that there is neither sufferer, nor suffering. There are only thoughts ABOUT a sufferer and suffering. Can you see this?

Yes! I see this! Additionally, there WAS NEVER any PAST suffering or sufferer; there will be no FUTURE suffering or sufferer, and there is none in the present moment. It is all only thoughts.
The present moment IS. This is reality.

Love,
Jen

[Vivien]

Hi Jen,

V: Does the pure sensation have any innate attributes, or is it totally NEUTRAL?

J: Yes, these are just mental labels which are neutral, because these labels cannot/do not have any innate attributes.
Yes, the labels are neutral, but what about the sensation itself that is labelled as ‘sadness’, ‘fear’ or ‘happiness’?

So what we call an ‘emotion’ that is nothing else then a sensation + a mental label “sadness’, ‘fear’, ‘happiness’. So an emotion is nothing else then a sensation + a label. Is this clear?

Now let’s examine the pure sensations without the labels. In reality, there are only 3 types of sensations. Pleasant, unpleasant and neutral. But usually the neutral ones are ignored, we hardly notice them. All the negative emotions generate unpleasant sensations, and in reality there is no difference in sensation of ‘sadness’, ‘anger’, ‘fear’, etc. There might be differences of the location and the intensity of the sensations, but the ‘feeling’ is the same. All these sensations feel contracted (actually the muscles are contracted). That’s why they are unpleasant.

The pleasant sensations are just the opposite of contraction, they feel open, expanded (because the muscles are relaxed) That’s why they feel pleasant. ‘Love’, ‘peace’, ‘calmness’, ‘gratitude’… these are all expanded sensations. The pure sensations of them are the same. There might be difference in location and intensity, but that’s all.

For the exercise you’ll have to bring up certain emotions, both pleasant and unpleasant ones. You don’t have to dive deeply into the unpleasant ones, you just bring up them lightly, just enough intensity that you can observe the underlying sensations.

So bring up the memory of ‘sadness’. When the sensation is present, don’t pay attention to the thought story, just stay with the pure sensation for a minute.
After about a minute let go of the sensation labelled ‘sadness’, and try to slightly feel ‘fear’ (just gently). Let go all thoughts, and just feel the pure sensation.
Now try to feel the sensation of ‘anger’ for a little while. Then let it go. Let your body calm down.

So, could you see that all the negative emotions felt very similar, contracted and unpleasant?
And only the labels make them seemingly different?

Now bring up the feeling of ‘love’, and pay attention only to the pure sensation. Let it be there for a while.
Then bring up the feeling of ‘peace’, observe the sensation carefully.
Now bring up the feeling of ‘gratitude’, and stay with a sensation as long as you like.

So, could you see that all the positive emotions felt very similar, expanded, pleasant?
And only the labels make them seemingly different?

And now the last step. Bring up just the feeling of an unpleasant sensation. You don’t even have to label it, just feel it. When the sensation is present observe it very carefully.
Does the pure sensation suggest in any way that it’s ‘unpleasant’?
Does the pure sensation itself is REALLY unpleasant?

Now, bring up a pleasant sensation, stay with it for a while, and observe it carefully.
Does the pure sensation suggest in any way that it’s ‘pleasant’?
Does the pure sensation itself is REALLY pleasant?

Yes! I see this! Additionally, there WAS NEVER any PAST suffering or sufferer; there will be no FUTURE suffering or sufferer, and there is none in the present moment. It is all only thoughts

Exactly! Nice looking.

Vivien

[Jenisfree]

Hello Vivien!

So what we call an ‘emotion’ that is nothing else then a sensation + a mental label “sadness’, ‘fear’, ‘happiness’. So an emotion is nothing else then a sensation + a label. Is this clear?

Yes! This is so clear!!! Yes!

So, could you see that all the negative emotions felt very similar, contracted and unpleasant?

Yes, yes, yes!!!

And only the labels make them seemingly different?

Yes, they are almost identical, with the exception that sensations with certain labels were more intense. But, the discomfort and contraction was identical.

So, could you see that all the positive emotions felt very similar, expanded, pleasant?

Yes!!!!

And only the labels make them seemingly different?

Yes! I do see this, very very clearly! They are only LABELS!!!!

Does the pure sensation suggest in any way that it’s ‘unpleasant’?

No. It is only a sensation

Does the pure sensation itself is REALLY unpleasant?

No.

Does the pure sensation suggest in any way that it’s ‘pleasant’?

No.

Does the pure sensation itself is REALLY pleasant?

No not at all.
I see this! I see that all of them, with no exception are labels and sensations!!!!!

Love,
Jen