Understanding

[anigeka]

Hi Marcin!

What does "the mind" in this sentence refer to? What does the "coming to a still" mean? Please describe the process as it happens.

You know, upon doing some investigating, I really have no idea what I'm referring to. I thought of it as "thinking" and "imagining", but I don't know if there's a difference between that and any other perception. And when I said that the mind becomes still, I meant that there is no mental activity or focus on any particular line of inquiry. There's just silence, or space with no internal dialogue or searching of any sort. But if I had to define it now, I would say the "mind" is everything that I am aware of, including the 5 senses. It is the content or the perceiving in my experience. It is any and all objective perceptions.

All the best,
Yev

[mpsi]

Hi Yev,

Thanks for the response! I'm going to have a very busy day today, and will get back to you tomorrow.

Wishing you all the best,
Marcin

[anigeka]

Hi Marcin!

No problem! Have a good one!

All the best,
Yev

[mpsi]

Hi Yev,

...everything that I am aware of, including the 5 senses. It is the content or the perceiving in my experience. It is any and all objective perceptions.

Is there anything other than "objective perceptions"?

What is there besides the 5 senses?

All the best,
Marcin

[anigeka]

Hi, Marcin!

Is there anything other than "objective perceptions"?

Not from my experience. Anything that can be registered by awareness is automatically an objective perception, otherwise, it might as well be non-existent.

What is there besides the 5 senses?

There's thinking and feeling. The former being comprised of self-generated 5 senses and the latter being a seemingly bodily experience.

All the best,
Yev

[mpsi]

Hi Yev!

What is there besides the 5 senses?

There's thinking and feeling. The former being comprised of self-generated 5 senses and the latter being a seemingly bodily experience.

If this is so, then when looking at a cup, how do you know it is a cup and not something else?

Best regards,
Marcin

[anigeka]

Hi Marcin!

If this is so, then when looking at a cup, how do you know it is a cup and not something else?

The answer is, I really can't. "The cup" is a mental label. It could be a pencil sharpener that looks like a cup. So in the end, the image of the cup I'm witnessing is just that. Any interpretation is false because it's malleable like an optical illusion . The cup can also be a utensil holder. It's the mind that draws a distinction between a cup and not a cup, when really, there's nothing of the sort. It just is what it is.

All the best,
Yev

[mpsi]

Hi Yev,

"The cup" is a mental label.

Yes, this is a mental label. And these labels exist. They are visible here now, in plain sight, can you see them? Tell me please what you see.

All the best,
Marcin

[anigeka]

Hi Marcin,

They are visible here now, in plain sight, can you see them? Tell me please what you see.

I'd go as far as to say that everything is a label when it is touched by the realm of interpretation. If one stubs their toe, for example, sure, there is a very sharp or dull sensation that shows that something needs to be looked at, but it's not "pain" until thought evaluates it as such. Even a sensation of fear is only an appearance in awareness until it is attached to by the mind and anxiety is created out of that. Labels seem to be a necessary component of life such as when looking at written words, they need to go though a stage of being labeled, or read out loud through thought(or at least that's the only way I can interpret written word). But is there ultimately any inherent meaning in ink or black pixels arranged in a certain way? Absolutely not. As to how these labels get translated into meaning though is beyond me.

All the best,
Yev

[mpsi]

Hi Yev,

As to how these labels get translated into meaning though is beyond me.

As to meaning - it should be sufficient for the purpose of our investigation here to treat meaning as a kind of sense, just like seeing. When you look at the sky, how does the blue color become visible? It just kind of is here. The same with meaning.

But what we can do is not to believe all the meaning that is there. Actually, we can see the meaning from outside, simply as "the content of thought". So instead of following a thread of meaning, we just notice it, and allow it to be.

Now, for the sake of this investigation let's call this labeling interpretative activity "thought".

I'd go as far as to say that everything is a label when it is touched by the realm of interpretation.

Does thought make any contact with other kinds of sense experience, such as sounds or sensations – or are they totally separate from each other?

All the best,
Marcin

[anigeka]

Hi Marcin,

Does thought make any contact with other kinds of sense experience, such as sounds or sensations – or are they totally separate from each other?

They are separate. Thought generally follows a sense perception.

All the best,
Yev

[mpsi]

Hi Yev,

They are separate. Thought generally follows a sense perception.

Let's take a closer look at thoughts, how they behave:

Here is a thought exercise. Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts.
Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are
saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.

Where are they coming from and going to?
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment
instead?
Can you predict your next thought?
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just
notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these
thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one
thought follows another thought’?

Wishing you all the best,
Marcin

[anigeka]

Hi Marcin!

Where are they coming from and going to?

All in all, there's no rhyme or reason to most thoughts. The stream of thoughts is akin to boarding trains. Once you step off of one, another is prompt to follow. Thoughts seem to come out of nothing(ness) and return there as well.

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

No, they are entirely spontaneous. Certain thoughts are triggered by other thoughts, so by the same virtue, thoughts are also triggered by external environment in the same way. Seeing an object such as an apple and imagining one will send me down the same line of thinking unless there was something noteworthy about the object in either form.

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment
instead?

No. Following the previous question, they are spontaneously manifested either by a trigger or mind's natural functioning.

Can you predict your next thought?

No. If left to it's own devices, the mind is a series of thoughts going off on tangents to whatever object it's interested in the most at the time.

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?

Same as the previous two questions. Thoughts are spontaneous in nature and one can either go with the train or choose not to board it(get off anywhere in midst of the journey if one is aware of it).

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

No, but ultimately, there is no necessity to try and avoid them. It is all about investment in the form of belief and attention.

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

I'm not sure what the angle is on this question, but I will say that to the degree of my conscious intention to manifest a thought, I can manifest it. Although ultimately it's the same trap the previous questions allude to, because in order for me to even want to manifest a certain though, there has to be an impulse to want to generate that thought, which is also a thought. And then one boards a train again, although there might be a greater sense of control of where it heads. The closest I can come to describing what free will is is those little conscious moments driven by an inner impulse. Call it intuition or whatever else.

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

[/quote]
No. This is paradoxical in nature. Any intention is of the nature of thought. Even one to prevent a thought.

All the best,
Yev

[mpsi]

Hi Yev,

Thank you for your answers.

I'm not sure what the angle is on this question, but I will say that to the degree of my conscious intention to manifest a thought, I can manifest it. Although ultimately it's the same trap the previous questions allude to, because in order for me to even want to manifest a certain though, there has to be an impulse to want to generate that thought, which is also a thought. And then one boards a train again, although there might be a greater sense of control of where it heads. The closest I can come to describing what free will is is those little conscious moments driven by an inner impulse. Call it intuition or whatever else.

How do you choose a thought to generate? Do you choose a topic? How does it happen?

How do you make sure a thought on a given topic is generated and not abandoned somewhere along the way?

Is there really a train of thoughts, or is there a thought that says that the train has been formed?

The sense of control you mention: what exactly is this sense of control? Is there an entity that exercises the control?

With best wishes,
Marcin

[anigeka]

Hi Marcin!

How do you choose a thought to generate? Do you choose a topic? How does it happen?

I wouldn't say that "I" choose a thought. But if for example there is an urge to think about an apple, I'm imagining a green apple. All sorts of things can be done with that image including rotating around the apple like a camera or taking a bite out of it which has some somatic qualities to it. But I don't really know if "choice" is an appropriate word. There's just an impulse that appears out of nothingness as far as I can tell to either produce a word or an image in consciousness. What faculties do it, I don't know. But choice is a very tricky word here, because I can't really tell if a choice is made. If I could attribute the word choice to anything in the scenario it's to not pay attention to the unfolding of the thought. Remaining uninterested and unperterbed, as it will.

How do you make sure a thought on a given topic is generated and not abandoned somewhere along the way?

I don't know if it's possible to not "abandon" a particular stream of thought without extensive training of focus. I don't think attention is meant to remain stationary. It's somewhat like a lighthouse scanning for interesting objects to attach to at all times. But that doesn't mean conscious focus can't be given to a particular object within awareness. Again, whether it's by a choice or whether it's just a happening, I can't tell.

Is there really a train of thoughts, or is there a thought that says that the train has been formed?

On one level there is, and on another, there isn't. Your assertion that the "train of thought" is a thought is clearly right, but there does seem to be a natural progression of a thought stream. For example, if I imagine the word "food", it is more likely that the next thought that enters awareness will be what I want for dinner rather than the square root of pi. That is until awareness of that topic has ceased.

The sense of control you mention: what exactly is this sense of control? Is there an entity that exercises the control?

See, I don't know about this. This is that subtle spark of "free will". But just like the breath- do I do it, or does it do me? I'd have to say it's a matter of perspective until I clearly know the nature of that impulse.

All the best,
Yev