Time to die.

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Rohit
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Re: Time to die.

Postby Rohit » Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:55 am

Hi george,


you are doing great .:)



lets go ahead .

LOOK CLOSELY :

Notice your breathing .how is it happening ?anything influencing it ?


GO for a walk in nature .LOOK how things are flowing ?

is there a so-called doer to do anything ?

what is living life ?



"I" am not free yet

Can you really say that with a straight face?

what are you trying to be free of ?

There is an idea of a “YOU ”.That doesn’t make "YOU" real, does it?


On the other side of fear is relief.This can get emotional, too.

what is aware of these thoughts and feelings?

what is having this experience?
I want to do some more looking

LOOK there is the decision to LOOK but it is not yours. Are you really taking the decision?
No one is supposed to look and question. It is just looking and questioning ?



-Rohit

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George
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Re: Time to die.

Postby George » Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:10 am

Caught me...and made me laugh. OK, you're right, I can't say I'm not free yet. Taking the "I" out, that would be, "can't say not free yet," and that sounds ridiculous by any measure. I know it's just verbiage and semantics, but it teaches the point. Take the "I" out of a sentence. Nice exercise.

Go for a walk in nature? It's gonna be 104 degrees tomorrow. I know, "who's hot?" Well, that would be, "it's hot!" OK, I'll try it if it's early enough, but once north of 95 the functioning that it mistaken as "I" tends to react in uncharming ways. Seriously, though, I'll give it a try. It's a serious exercise in observation with potentially valuable lessons. OK, then.

Shopping at Wal-Mart today. Strange feeling that the entire passing parade of humanity was on automatic. I didn't get upset at anyone. In fact, just the opposite, there was a feeling that there weren't any 'others' in the store...not individual, independent personalities...no persons, just one person-people involved in some kind of flow. I observed several others "making decisions" about what to buy. Some had kids, some spoke in tongues other than English, some were old, some cute, some unwashed, some homeless just hanging out inside the store to get out of the heat. NONE of it mattered. It seemed like a big river flowing with lots of different parts to it, but all the parts were still the river, and "I" was right there in the flow along with everything else. "I" was gone. Just flow...living. In fact, I didn't even notice it until it had been going on for several minutes, so I can't even say "I" saw or noticed it. It just WAS, that's all. Nothing more, no big deal, no nothing really. Very peaceful, which was new. Tears started to start...by the peanut butter, honest. Peaceful? At Wal-Mart? But, yes, there it was. Nothing changed from previous visits, but it was totally new. Then, the bitch wouldn't put my groceries in the cart, and it all came apart. Back to Square 1. Fragile stuff, this deconstructing.

Another thing: situations are things, too. There is no more "I" in a situation than there is in a rock. I'm used to thinking of things as...well, things. Somehow, it occurred to me that "things" include situations. Thoughts are things, too. Not of me, not me. No me. Things are things. They are and that's it. Language fails here. It's like it's not just the stuff that's not me, it's the flow and processes, too. I can't get the words to come out right. Oh, well.

An idea of me does not make a me. How do I know? Because I've had an idea of me for a long time, and still I can't find a me. Pretty basic when boiled down. Why not obvious before? Doesn't matter. All life functions happen on their own. I don't control digestion, trees don't control life cycles, dogs don't know they're dogs. It all just is. No operator necessary. No doer of actions, no claimer of thoughts or deeds. So much for being in charge, or even for there to be a someone to try to be in charge. What stops the reinforcement of the idea of an "I"? Looking. Questioning.

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Rohit
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Re: Time to die.

Postby Rohit » Sat Aug 11, 2012 7:18 am

Hi george,

^^^ that was good :)^^^



so,When you type out " There is no more "I"..." - what is happening?

Who is typing that? When that statement is made " Not of me, not me. No me", what comes up?

Describe the emotion. What does that mean to the rest of "your" life?


-Rohit

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George
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Re: Time to die.

Postby George » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:46 pm

In Gateless Gatecrashers, I was relieved to read that we don't deny anything. We don't deny thoughts...they are there, that's it. We don't deny situations...they are there, that's it. We don't deny things, material or otherwise...they are there, that's it. Everything that is, is. Nothing requires denial, as in "this isn't real," etc. We don't even deny an "I/me." All we do is have a good, hard, honest, probing look to see if it's real. If we can find one -- good luck with that -- then we could say that it's real. However, there's nothing that can be found. So, we take that at face value and concede that there is no I/me, since it can't be found. So fucking simple. I didn't say easy, just simple. But, well...hell, I don't know.

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Rohit
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Re: Time to die.

Postby Rohit » Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:03 am

Hi george ,
So fucking simple. I didn't say easy, just simple. But, well...hell, I don't know.
Yes!!it is really very simple .
The truth is that you assumed there is a you , but there is no-you .


ok .so, What’s going on right now?

what is breathing?

what is thinking?

is there a doer ?

Is there really such a thing as self ?

What is true now?

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George
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Re: Time to die.

Postby George » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:25 am

The body is breathing...and digesting, and replacing cells, and regulating temperature/blood pressure, and all that...by itself. It's autonomic. There is no doer -- at least not a localized doer -- doing anything. All functions happen by design, and the designer certainly ain't me.

What is thinking? Thoughts come and go. Many are relevant to this frame of reference of time, space, and location, such as, "It's time to get ready to take my son to Cub Scouts; I should water the lawn; I over-seasoned the fish", etc. However, many other thoughts are not relevant to the present frame of reference of time and space; these are pretty random. In either case, there doesn't seem to be a choice about it...not a thinker, per se. Whatever comes up comes up and is either acted upon or not, depending on what's called for.

No doer. Just an idea of "me," nurtured and reinforced. It all seems like a paper mache, a figure that appears real but is without substance -- there's nothing inside. Maybe that's what this inquiry is, opening up the paper mache figure and finding nothing inside. The shell is a fabrication and the inside doesn't exist, and the proof is looking inside to see if anything is there.

What is true now is that there is an academic grasp of the theory, but that the habit patterns and beliefs have not yet died. The other thing that's true now is that I don't want to be like that jerk-off that Ilona terminated yesterday after six months of getting nowhere. I don't want to waste anyone's time. Why she even put up with him for that long stuns me, but never mind all that. Has nothing to do with this inquiry.

One line from another post somewhere got my attention: "doubt is just a thought trying to be the self." I pondered that last night. It's not that this inquiry business can't be done, it's that there's nothing to do.

If I ever start to become a pain in the neck to even the slightest degree, please drop me like a hot rock. I hate posers, and I think myself to be one about half the time. I'm so full of shit sometimes. That's probably why I don't see clearly. Like I said in the email, this isn't about being clever, intelligent, wise, humorous, or anything else. This is all about skillful, persistent, honest looking. If there were only a pill to take to really see clearly, like in The Matrix.

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Rohit
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Re: Time to die.

Postby Rohit » Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:33 am

George you have done great :)
I hate posers, and I think myself to be one about half the time. I'm so full of shit sometimes.
is it true ??

That's probably why I don't see clearly.
Like I said in the email, this isn't about being clever, intelligent, wise, humorous, or anything else.
This is all about skillful, persistent, honest looking.

what is to be seen ? is there a seer doing the seeing ?



OK george .LOOK .There is a sense of self, a feeling, a thought, an idea... and when that is operating, it feels like being caught up in the movement.

And then, there is a movement to see the truth that there is not an ACTUAL self. And it's recognized again that it is a thought, a feeling, an idea. That's all.

It's always true that there is no-self. No I. It may not always FEEL like it. But it IS always true. And real.

Because something that is true can't ever be untrue."I" is not going to "go away" causing everything to cease existing.

"I" has never existed, and everything else ALREADY exists on its own without caring.

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George
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Re: Time to die.

Postby George » Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:44 am

That's an entirely new way of putting it. Either that, or this version got through. Thanks, I'm going to re-read this about a hundred times. Struck a chord here. Damn, it's true and you're right...give me a day with this. I'm grateful for your persistence.

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George
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Re: Time to die.

Postby George » Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:48 am

It works. Every time there is the feeling of being caught up in the movement, at that point it can be recognized that that feeling -- pleasant or unpleasant doesn't matter -- and even the sensation of there being a self that is part of the action, is all just another thought...or an idea with no basis in reality. Every time there is this recognition, it changes nothing in terms of the action that's happening, but it lessens the impact of the action since there's nothing to impact except this false notion of an I/me. So, how long does it take until I don't have to remember to look and see that there is no I/me in the action? Never mind; it'll come of its own accord. I have been habituated to believe in a me, and it may take some time to loosen the glue that holds this false idea of an involved self together. Always be looking, I guess? I can say that when it is remembered to see that the I/me is a phantom, that there seems to be a separation between observation and the action taking place and, thereby, more calm and insulation. I hope that's a good word, insulation. Insulation between observation and action? That's what it feels like, anyway.

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Rohit
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Re: Time to die.

Postby Rohit » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:54 am

so , WHAT is doing all this looking ?

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George
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Re: Time to die.

Postby George » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:39 am

Not a dog-gone thing, as it turns out. The looker doesn't exist. There is a shell through which life lives, complete with mind, body, personality, ego, preferences and aversions, ideals, beliefs, etc. This "throughput device" is only that, and it has no substance, functioning or purpose other than as a throughput device. That, truly, is the end of the story. A trillion different throughput devices through which one Life lives.

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Rohit
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Re: Time to die.

Postby Rohit » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:35 am

So, Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

Describe in detail .

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George
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Re: Time to die.

Postby George » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:01 pm

Last night, I was reading GG again, this time the story about Charles. I finished the story, put the book up, and started snacking on some Doritos thinking about the story. Then, suddenly, everything just clicked. It all fell into place and made perfect sense. This morning, there was still a little residual "me" hanging around, kind of like smoke after a candle is blown out. However, it evaporated instantly when looked at and seen for what it was. I'm done. It's over. Yes, there's still this human being walking around, just like before. In fact, EVERYTHING is just like before. Absolutely nothing has changed. Only now, watching George is just like watching anyone else. It doesn't stick and there is the notion that things will start to change now, with Life at the steering wheel instead of "me." Time to get used to enjoying the passing view on the big tour. My driver's license has been revoked and "me" has been fired from being in control of anything, or even existing for that matter. Thanks for your help. For a bit there, I was having trouble being completely honest about this. Sure is nice out today.

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Rohit
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Re: Time to die.

Postby Rohit » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:12 am

stop reading any book for now and answer the following questions :

1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?



2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

3) How does it feel to see this?


4) How would you describe it to somebody who is very interested, but has never heard about this illusion.



5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

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George
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Re: Time to die.

Postby George » Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:07 am

Rohit, I'm sorry. I thought I saw clearly. However, I neither see nor see through nothing. The I/me continues to ride my back, and I continue to give him a free ride, going wherever he wants to go. I am rid of nothing for all these inquiries, especially a personalized me identity. I'll try again at another time. Thanks for your efforts and patience. I wish I could have rewarded your kindness with a change in color, but realization is not a clear understanding. Best of luck with your next seeker. You've been great. The shortcoming is on this end. Warmly, George.


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