West Cork Ireland- asking for Kay

[forgetmenot]

Hey Ado,

Let’s look at resistance
So what is actually known is label + sensation + colour + thoughts about resistance. But is resistance actually known?

I can see by that logic in AE that resistance can’t really be known it is only something that thought comes up with to try and cloud the AE in the moment. There are plenty of thoughts about resistance but when all thought is ignored there isn’t any resistance. The unpleasant sensation in my gut that thought will quickly label as resistance or fear or whatever is simply just a sensation which doesn’t need any labeling attached to it.

Yes, it is simply a sensation. However, you do need to keep looking to see if you can find anyone who is actually resisting. Have a look if you can find anyone in the sensation itself, or behind the sensation. Or are you simply aware of the sensation labelled as ‘resistance/fear’?

Can you find an actual “I” in the label ‘resistance’ itself?
Can you find an actual “I” in the sensation itself?
Or are there only thoughts about an “I” that is in resistance?
Can you find an actual “I” in the thoughts about resistance?

Don’t forget to use the ‘blahblahblah’ exercise. It is a quick tool to see what is actually appearing.

I did have a shitty phone call with my ex wife yesterday evening which left me feeling angry and disappointed and also a little fearful as she threatened to restrict access to our girls. I must admit for about an hour all thoughts of this work and labeling feelings and sensations went out the window but after getting some support from a friend over the phone I was fairly calm when I did call to collect the girls from my ex’s house. Today even as myself and the girls were doing stuff together I was able to practice the labeling exercise periodically throughout the day which was great. I’m starting to see that I’m not my thoughts although I’ll need to work on the Gaps between thoughts exercise and the previous one before I confidently see that.
I'll be dropping the girls back to their mother tomorrow evening and will have a bit more time to work on the thought exercises. I’ll try and put up a post tomorrow evening but if not I will on Monday morning.

It is a good idea…when you have calmed down and have the time…to bring the story to mind about your ex wife and then see if you can find anyone who is angry or disappointed. Every moment is an opportunity to LOOK!

I look forward to your next post.

Kay

[Clashnacrona]

Hi Kay,

I had a look at the exercises below.

Can you find an actual “I” in the label ‘resistance’ itself?
Can you find an actual “I” in the sensation itself?
Or are there only thoughts about an “I” that is in resistance?
Can you find an actual “I” in the thoughts about resistance?

I can’t find any “I” in the label resistance. There is also no “I” to be found in the sensation itself. There are definitely only thoughts about about an “I” that is in resistance. There is no actual “I” in the thoughts about resistance that can be seen but the thoughts still can be quite powerful and convincing. Thoughts like this is all rubbish and airy fairy mumbo jumbo pie in the sky stuff and it has no basis in reality. As I type this it is seen that the “I” doesn’t want to be seen as being false cos where would that leave “me”. In the looking it is plain to see that there is no “I” in AE and there is a strong sense that once thoughts can be seen as being nothing to do with a “me” then that will go a long way towards cracking the illusion of an “I”. Not sure if that makes any sense but I suppose it does for me



I did have a shitty phone call with my ex wife yesterday evening which left me feeling angry and disappointed and also a little fearful as she threatened to restrict access to our girls. I must admit for about an hour all thoughts of this work and labeling feelings and sensations went out the window but after getting some support from a friend over the phone I was fairly calm when I did call to collect the girls from my ex’s house.

Don’t forget to use the ‘blahblahblah’ exercise. It is a quick tool to see what is actually appearing.


It is a good idea…when you have calmed down and have the time…to bring the story to mind about your ex wife and then see if you can find anyone who is angry or disappointed. Every moment is an opportunity to LOOK!

I did have a look at this and I used the blahblahblah exercise. When I brought the “I am fearful about my ex threatening to reduce access to my girls”, there was a sensation of a knot in my stomach that the mind labeled as fear and dread. When I brought the story to mind and replaced that with blahblahblah there was still a feeling of dread and fear in my gut but it was more subtle as the thought story that “I” imagined might happen in the future was a very fearful one which of course had increased the fearful sensation. In the reality of the AE of sensation the bare bones of the situation was my ex used words around possibly having to renegotiate access to the girls via mediation. There was a sensation of fear and anger which my mind then layered up with a ‘fantastic’, story. She had grossly exaggerating the facts of the situation which “I” had then taken personally and then felt ‘justifiable’ anger towards her. In looking more closely I can see there is no “I” in the story when thought is ignored but my reaction in that situation was almost instantaneous and it seems to be taking a while for the reality of there being no “I” to sink in on a fundamental level.

I’ll look at the thoughts exercise in more detail in the next few days.

All the best

Ado

[forgetmenot]

Hey Ado,

Once you have done the thought exercise...I will respond to your post. But if I respond to it...I will just keep adding to it and I really want you to see the nature of thoughts as clearly as possible.

Kay

[Clashnacrona]

Hi Kay,

I will be looking at the thought exercises later on today but I wanted to tell you about a really profound experience that happened yesterday evening. I was having dinner with a great friend of mine at a Chinese restaurant yesterday evening. This friend is has been investigating the illusion of self for a longtime and he realised his true nature while on a 7 day solitary retreat last summer. We have been meeting up regularly to exchange notes on our respective investigations and he has and is a great support to me.
I had been having a tough day with my girls and had just dropped them back to their mother and was caught up in black mood where everything seemed very negative. After we finished our meal I eventually started to relay something that had happened on the walk I did as part of the labeling colours sounds sensations etc exercise I had been doing this week. I’m pretty sure I mentioned this in my post to you that day as well. Anyhow I have noticed for a while now that when I am walking whether it be out in nature on the wards in work or strolling uptown that when I look down at the ground I am generally stuck in my head and mind and not very present in the moment but when I lift my head up and take in the whole view especially the peripheral view I seem to be more present. As I was trying to describe this to my friend there was the usual egoic voice telling me that this was all airy fairy bullshit and not to bother talking about it which I said out to my friend. He told me to ignore that and to try and describe in my own words what happened when I lifted my head.
All if a sudden I felt a deep emotion coming up from my heart and I started to cry from a very deep place and I could hardly get the words out but what came out was that there was something else looking out through these eyes in that moment on the walk and the words that came out were that the “Truth” was looking out through my eyes and then I just couldn’t stop crying for a good 20 mins as the enormity of that realisation was hitting me. I went from crying to belly laughing back to crying again and I just felt an immense love and peace. I know it's only the start of another part of this journey but the black mood that had been overwhelming me lifted completely and I can’t stop crying with joy every time I think back to it. I have a real sense that something extremely important and profound happened and it has given me the impetus to keep investigating. And it was so appropriate that my friend was with me cos he saw immediately what was happening and was able to hold the space and support me in the experience. I didn’t sleep very well at all last night just trying to process it but it feels like I have just been welcomed back to me real home and it feels so safe and secure and loving.

Love Ado

[forgetmenot]

Hi Ado,

What a lovely experience...the experience of recognising Self (not Adoself).

Kay

[Clashnacrona]

Here is a step-by-step description of how to look at thoughts. First thing is to sit for at least 10-15 minutes quietly somewhere, several times throughout your day. Close the eyes and just notice thoughts. Don’t engage with any thought, just notice them.

b] Looking for the gap is a way to slow the thoughts, as the objective of this exercise is to observe each and every thought as it arises and subsides.[/b]

1. Notice the current thought that is present.
Like when you sit observing the body, a thought might arise “this is my feet” or “here is a pain” or “my breathing is too quick” or “I am bored with this exercise” or “I have better things to do” or any sorts of thoughts.

2. This thought will pass and another thought will come. So just observe this thought passing.

3. Then wait for the next thought to come.

4. When the next thought is present, just notice it, and see how it passes.

5. Then wait for the next thought to come.

6. Repeat #4 and #5 many-many times.

Between the 2 thoughts there is a gap. It can be very short or subtle, just a second or a few seconds before the next thought come in.

This is how to look at thoughts.
Looking how they come and go.
And observing the short gap between them.
Noticing how the current thought is passing.
And waiting for the next thought to come.

Hi Kay

I have done the 15 min looking for the gaps in thought exercise quite a few times in the last few days. Yesterday morning after the experience I had in the restaurant the night before I found that there were long gaps between thought and I seemed to be able to observe them more from a distance….. I have just done it there again this evening and it was much more challenging to stay disengaged from the thoughts. It is like the old self is really making up for being temporarily toppled and is fighting back with a vengeance. Even though I had that lovely experience of no self for that short period of time I feel like I’m further away than ever of realising my true nature. I’m also really tired I did a full day of drumming workshops with over 200 kids today which was great but exhausting. And I’m heading into night duty for 5 nights starting tomorrow evening. I’ll do my best to keep looking at thoughts while I’m on nights but its pretty much on for 12 hours 8pm to 8am then sleep shower dinner and work again. Hopefully there will be quiet periods in work where I can keep checking in with observing thoughts. And I’ll post on the forum as much as I can. I’ll be off for a full week from Monday morning onwards so can will be able to put more time into the exercises then.
Thanks for your patience.

Regards

Ado

[forgetmenot]

Hello Ado,

This is how to look at thoughts.
Looking how they come and go.
And observing the short gap between them.
Noticing how the current thought is passing.
And waiting for the next thought to come.

I have done the 15 min looking for the gaps in thought exercise quite a few times in the last few days. Yesterday morning after the experience I had in the restaurant the night before I found that there were long gaps between thought and I seemed to be able to observe them more from a distance….. I have just done it there again this evening and it was much more challenging to stay disengaged from the thoughts.

The purpose of the exercise was for you to observe each and every thought as it appeared. Looking for the gap was just so that the ‘mind’ had something to do and slowed down the thoughts so that you could observe them.
Can you do the exercise and observe each and every thought as it appeared and report back please.

It is like the old self is really making up for being temporarily toppled and is fighting back with a vengeance. Even though I had that lovely experience of no self for that short period of time I feel like I’m further away than ever of realising my true nature.

You (not Adoself) are already! There is no separate self…so what would it be like to experience ‘no self’? How does that even look or feel like?


There is no “old self”. There has never been a separate self of any kind. The experience you had…is just that...an experience and is not the end game. Whatever arises and subsides is an appearance and is not what you are. So even the “lovely experience” is not what you are.

Thought says that the foot is ‘down there’. So presumably you are above your foot. Where are you? Sit quietly, close your eyes, take a few breaths and locate where you feel yourself to be. Locate yourself vertically in the body, horizontally to the left or right, and depth, how far in. Feel how big you are, where you reside. Then point with a finger to ‘you’. Open your eyes, where is your finger pointing?

And I’m heading into night duty for 5 nights starting tomorrow evening. I’ll do my best to keep looking at thoughts while I’m on nights but its pretty much on for 12 hours 8pm to 8am then sleep shower dinner and work again. Hopefully there will be quiet periods in work where I can keep checking in with observing thoughts. And I’ll post on the forum as much as I can. I’ll be off for a full week from Monday morning onwards so can will be able to put more time into the exercises then.
Thanks for your patience.

Thanks for keeping me updated.

Love, Kay

[Clashnacrona]

Hi Kay,

I was able to two 15 min stints at looking at thoughts and I have described below what happened.

The purpose of the exercise was for you to observe each and every thought as it appeared. Looking for the gap was just so that the ‘mind’ had something to do and slowed down the thoughts so that you could observe them.
Can you do the exercise and observe each and every thought as it appeared and report back please.

As I mentioned I did the exercise of observing thoughts a couple of times while sitting outside. After the mind calmed down and stopped labeling the sound of the wind blowing in the trees and the sensation of the wind on my face etc... I began to notice that when I totally disengage and ignore all thoughts, (which I’m still finding a challenge), its as if a thought is just there all of a sudden and then it isn’t there and the same thing happened with the next thought and so on. As soon as I engaged even for a second with any thoughts the mind then labeled that action as proof of its ability to control thought when in fact thought just appeared and then disappeared of its own accord. I can “think” something like what I’m going to have for dinner which is a necessary thought similar to the thought which route will I drive to work considering traffic and the like but its then the multiple tangents that the mind will run with after that initial thought which seems to give the mind the illusion that it is in control and that is what “I” identify as being me. Maybe that is complete rubbish but it felt important to mention it to you.

Thought says that the foot is ‘down there’. So presumably you are above your foot. Where are you? Sit quietly, close your eyes, take a few breaths and locate where you feel yourself to be. Locate yourself vertically in the body, horizontally to the left or right, and depth, how far in. Feel how big you are, where you reside. Then point with a finger to ‘you’. Open your eyes, where is your finger pointing?

I haven’t had a chance to do this exercise yet but I will get to it in the next couple of days.

Regards

Ado

[forgetmenot]

Hello Ado,

The purpose of the exercise was for you to observe each and every thought as it appeared. Looking for the gap was just so that the ‘mind’ had something to do and slowed down the thoughts so that you could observe them.
Can you do the exercise and observe each and every thought as it appeared and report back please.

its as if a thought is just there all of a sudden and then it isn’t there and the same thing happened with the next thought and so on. As soon as I engaged even for a second with any thoughts the mind then labeled that action as proof of its ability to control thought when in fact thought just appeared and then disappeared of its own accord. I can “think” something like what I’m going to have for dinner which is a necessary thought similar to the thought which route will I drive to work considering traffic and the like but its then the multiple tangents that the mind will run with after that initial thought which seems to give the mind the illusion that it is in control and that is what “I” identify as being me. Maybe that is complete rubbish but it felt important to mention it to you.

Great observation! Seeing this will help you when we look at the thought exercise again. But answer the 'foot' question first.

Love, Kay

[Clashnacrona]

Hi K

ay,

I made a first attempt at this exercise.


uote]Thought says that the foot is ‘down there’. So presumably you are above your foot. Where are you? Sit quietly, close your eyes, take a few breaths and locate where you feel yourself to be. Locate yourself vertically in the body, horizontally to the left or right, and depth, how far in. Feel how big you are, where you reside. Then point with a finger to ‘you’. Open your eyes, where is your finger pointing?/

quo
[te]

I did this exercise just before heading into work and when I opened my eyes I found that my thumb was pointing at my heart or solar plexus area.

Regards
Ado

[forgetmenot]

Hey Ado,

I did this exercise just before heading into work and when I opened my eyes I found that my thumb was pointing at my heart or solar plexus area.

So have a good look…can you find an “I” in the heart an solar plexus area?

Does the label ‘heart’ or ‘solar plexus’ contain an actual “I”?
If there was a sensation in that area….does the sensation itself contain an actual “I”?
Have a look behind the sensation…can you find an “I” there?
What is its quality that makes you associate the sensation with "you"?
How is it different from other sensations?
Does a thought/label or a sensation know anything about an “I”?
Can an actual “I” be found or only thoughts about an “I”?

Kay

[Clashnacrona]

Hi Kay,

The nights have been really busy so ill post my responses on Monday evening.

Take Care

Ado

[Clashnacrona]

Hi Kay,

I sat down in stillness there for a while to look at the questions below and this is what came up for me.

Does the label ‘heart’ or ‘solar plexus’ contain an actual “I”?

No the labels are just thoughts there is no “I” in there.

If there was a sensation in that area….does the sensation itself contain an actual “I”?

Not that I can see or feel. There is a slight tightness around in my chest and ‘solar plexus’ area but its only thought that tells me that is ‘me’. There is no ‘I’ there. It is just sensation and nothing else without thought.

Have a look behind the sensation…can you find an “I” there?

I looked as best I could and couldn’t find an “I” behind the sensation either. The sensation is just a physical tightness as I described above and it is only thought that tells me that is ‘me’ or who “I” am. I have never questioned or investigated these thoughts up till now.

What is its quality that makes you associate the sensation with "you"?

Again it is more of a physical feeling that I have automatically associated as being ‘me’. Physical sensations have always equaled a ‘me’ prior to this investigation.

How is it different from other sensations?

It's not really different from any other physical sensations like for example if I stub my toe and experience pain I have always just assumed that ‘my toe’ is part of the ‘body’ that I call ‘me’.

Does a thought/label or a sensation know anything about an “I”?

No neither thought/label or sensation know anything about an “I” but thought will try and convince me that it does.

Can an actual “I” be found or only thoughts about an “I”?

There are only thoughts about an “I” no actual “I” can be found in AE.

All the best.

Ado

[forgetmenot]

Hi Ado,

Nice looking with these questions! As you saw for yourself...no "I" could be found in the sensation or behind the sensation or anywhere else you looked! Thought will continue to appear saying "but it stills feels like there is a me"....so look and see if thought is correct...look and see if you can find this "I" that thought keeps pointing to.

How is it different from other sensations?

It's not really different from any other physical sensations like for example if I stub my toe and experience pain I have always just assumed that ‘my toe’ is part of the ‘body’ that I call ‘me’.

Terrific! So let’s have a look at the sensation labelled as ‘fear’ as a means to compare sensations.

For this exercise it may be good to think of something that seems to create fear.

If you don’t think about it, do you know that this sensation is something called ‘fear’?
Is there any inherent fear in the sensation itself?

Go to the sensation at the soles of the feet. Would you label that sensation ‘fear’? Or is it just a neutral, undefined tingling sensation?
Now compare the sensation of the soles of the feet – which is just neutral sensation – and the sensation in your chest (labelled ‘fear’)…what is the difference between them?
Thought would say one is a little more ‘intense’, but apart from that – any difference?

Love, Kay

[Clashnacrona]

Terrific! So let’s have a look at the sensation labelled as ‘fear’ as a means to compare sensations.

For this exercise it may be good to think of something that seems to create fear.

If you don’t think about it, do you know that this sensation is something called ‘fear’?

Without thought there is only a leaden sensation in the pit of my stomach...it's thought that automatically assumes that sensation is fear.

Is there any inherent fear in the sensation itself?

No it is purely sensation it is thought that labels it as fear.

Go to the sensation at the soles of the feet. Would you label that sensation ‘fear’? Or is it just a neutral, undefined tingling sensation?
It is just a neutral tingling at the soles of my feet ….

Now compare the sensation of the soles of the feet – which is just neutral sensation – and the sensation in your chest (labelled ‘fear’)…what is the difference between them?
Thought would say one is a little more ‘intense’, but apart from that – any difference?

The sensation that is in the pit of my stomach is definitely more intense and it is definitely just thought that assumes and labels it as fear. Ignoring thought completely and they are just two slightly different sensations from different parts of the body. There is essentially no difference they are both simply sensation.

All the best

Ado

Ps I'm up visiting my Mum and family in Bray for a few days so only using my smart phone to post and having problems using the quote function properly...sorry about that.