Not "Getting It"

[Seamist]

There are no correct answers!
What about fears?

[Bayou1]

What about fears?

Hmm - fears. There is a little bit of nervousness but more of an excited kind of nervousness to see something life-changing. At this point after a couple of solid years of a ton of reading, listening to videos and interviews online, etc., I don't think I'm afraid, at least not noticeably so. "Gating" will end up changing how I see the world in a number of ways, including the belief that people have free will. If there are no "doers," then there is no personal free will. However, I'm not afraid to change my views and beliefs; I just want to see the truth.

[Seamist]

All good, and nothing wildly unrealistic there... But do be aware that the reality may not match your expectations... The experience of seeing through the self does vary. My own experience was dramatic, but it's not like that for everyone. Be open to it being however it is for you. Expectations can get in the way!
Sioned

[Bayou1]

Understood - I'm open to whatever it will be like but hope that whatever it's like, I'll just know that it happened. I hope that I'm not asking for much :)

[Seamist]

Glad to hear that.

Intone to yourself three times: "There is no separate self at all in reality. No agent that is in charge, no manager, no watcher, no owner of life; all there is is life flowing freely as one movement".
What's your response?

My name is Sioned, by the way - and I'm based in North Wales, in the UK x

[Bayou1]

Hello,

My reactions:

Intone to yourself three times: "There is no separate self at all in reality. No agent that is in charge, no manager,

Through the really helpful process with Amrita, the sense of there being a director / controller weakened. During my drive home from work yesterday, I spent a long time more reflecting on where a self would be or would be hiding out. There isn't a separate one detected in the process of senses working (no separate self found in hearing from the sound itself, for example). It seems that what we label as a self / person comes down to the physical body. Outside of the content of thoughts, however, there's nothing to give any credence to that, either. Those thoughts are what the world believes.

no watcher

This one is a little tougher. There's so much talk out there in non-duality circles on being awareness or consciousness, "standing as the watcher / awareness," and so on. There is something observing all of this because I'm aware; what is this awareness, then?

no owner of life; all there is is life flowing freely as one movement".

There not being an owner to life is something that I also have been trying to toy around with for a long time in my mind. There are unbelievable numbers of species of plants and animals - most of which don't appear to have much in terms of communication or language, and yet, they're all out there growing, living, and doing their own thing. All without thought being the presumed controller of it all. I have a 1 year old child. He is too young to have language yet, but he walks, eats, plays, gets in trouble, communicates what he wants (not through words, though), and does a ton without being able to have a thought. We think that we control ourselves through thoughts, but what about the other 99.9999999% of the lifeforms that aren't non-infant humans and therefore without these thoughts?


Thanks again!
Bayou
p.s. - Nice to meet you, Sioned!!!

[Seamist]

What you've said is fine, but what I was after was your emotional or physical response to the sentence. Obviously I didn't make it clear! Apologies! Hire about giving it another go with that in mind?

[Bayou1]

what I was after was your emotional or physical response to the sentence.

Not a problem :) Emotionally, I'd say that it feels a little exciting to consider that - a lack of self and everything just going on its own without little controllers in each. So, I'd say excitement and a bit of wonder that that could be the case.

[Seamist]

I like it...

Imagine that you are holding a spoon. Imagine form, size, weight, temperature, keep it there, close your eyes, and feel the imaginary spoon.
Open your eyes; is there a spoon here, in real life?
So how did you see that there is no spoon?
What happened to the spoon?
Did it disappear or it never existed?

[Seamist]

And just to check... any fear in response to the sentence?

[Bayou1]

Hello!

And just to check... any fear in response to the sentence?

No, I don't think that there is any fear, just an excitement to get to the end, to see what it's all really about.

Open your eyes; is there a spoon here, in real life?
So how did you see that there is no spoon?
What happened to the spoon?
Did it disappear or it never existed?

No, there was no real spoon in real life - just an empty hand. I saw that there was no spoon just by looking and seeing, which confirmed that it only existed in my imagination. Nothing happened to the spoon and it didn't actually disappear because it was never in existence to have anything happen to it in the first place.

[Seamist]

Hi
Notice, that there was no boom and no bright light flashes in the eyes when the imaginary spoon was no longer imagined. Remember this, a shift is not going to be more than this, it’s just a drop of belief- the glue that holds the illusion together.

Look around the room notice what is real. What is here now? Notice things, notice looking around the room. If you think that this world is not real, check it against an imaginary picture.

Here is another exercise:

Close your eyes and imagine you are in the kitchen. Just visualize and look around, notice where things are put. Notice the space, the feel of it.
This is an image, it can trigger feelings and contractions - expansions, thought stories and feelings attached to them.

Open the eyes and see how an image can be created and explored in the mind.

Go to the kitchen and look at the same things that you saw in the image, how does imagining and experiencing the same things differ? Is the image of the kitchen and experience of the kitchen the same?

[Bayou1]

Hello,

Look around the room notice what is real. What is here now? Notice things, notice looking around the room. If you think that this world is not real, check it against an imaginary picture.

Looking around the room and just seeing what "real" stuff was around, I saw a lot of objects, walls, furniture, and so forth. I heard sounds of the heating, smelled scents in the air, and had real touch sensations of the chair. Overlaid on all of that were some thoughts passing through.

Open the eyes and see how an image can be created and explored in the mind.

Go to the kitchen and look at the same things that you saw in the image, how does imagining and experiencing the same things differ? Is the image of the kitchen and experience of the kitchen the same?

I was able to explore that imaginary / thought-based kitchen in the mind and then went to the actual one as well. When trying to picture it in my mind, I had to rely on my memory of what is in that room and exactly where things were laid out. I couldn't remember too much of the detail of the smaller objects. Going into the actual kitchen, of course, was a refresher to the memory of what it actually looks like - much more full of things in addition to being a more "full" experience with the scents and other aspects of it that weren't part of my attempt to create a picture of it in my mind.


Thanks again!
Bayou

[Seamist]

Good, now repeat using the bathroom x

[Bayou1]

Hello,

Okay - I repeated the exercise but for the bathroom. The results / experience were the same. Thinking through what it's like to walk in there and look around, the experience is "flat" in the sense that it lacks detail, all the color, is overall ncorrect when compared to the real experience which has a much richer show of colors, lighting, and the rest. The thought-based approach is inferior.

Bayou