Not "Getting It"

[Bayou1]

Hi again,

I just wanted to check in again in case the site missed sending a notification that I already responded to your last post. I hope all's well with you!

Talk to you soon,
Bayou

[amrita]

Hi Bayou,

Apologies for delay. I have been busy with work and socialising :)

In response to your question,

I'm starting to get that feeling of being stuck and confused again, that I'm not coming up with the correct conclusions or putting them in the right way. Where am I going astray?

the only thing I can say is keep looking at direct experience. Examine sensations, images, mental symbols for any sign of a self or I ness.

What is that keeps you attached to the I story?

Love

Amrita x

[Bayou1]

Hi Amrita,

Hopefully that busyness has been more socializing and less work!

Can you please address the below question? I'm having trouble with the concept of how one even knows when one's through the gate or if the story of a me is continuing (or at what level of strength) -

From what you write it seems you cannot find anyting resembling a self in DE yet there is a lingering doubt or belief that the self must exist. Is that right?

I'm not sure how to really answer this question. I go about my life, and things happen as they always have. There's a lot of thinking at work, meetings, talking to groups, etc., and, from time to time, there's remembering to check in to see if there is a doer or if things are just going on by themselves. When I check, it is true that things are just happening. However, thinking, "there is no doer!" or something along those lines isn't a thought running through the mind in every waking moment. How then can it be known if it has been grasped, if there is any doubt? I can't imagine that that is the one and only thought you have, but you are absolutely sure that you have seen through this all and realized the lack of a self. I haven't felt any change in perception or outlook but do not find a controller.

What is that keeps you attached to the I story?

Hmmm - I'm not sure. My life happens, and when checking in on direct experience happens, I don't find an "I" there. At the same time, I can't say that I have perceived any shift in perception. The above section / question will be really helpful to have answered.

Thanks again,
Bayou

[amrita]

Hi,

In response to your question everyone seems to go through this process in their own way. For some, there is a definite "shift" in the way they see things. For others, its a more subtle and gradual process where one day they just realise they no longer believe in a self, I or me. For me, there was a definite shift or letting go of something and that has stayed since. I guess what is being pointed out is so obvious and in front of us that a lot of people may think "is that it?" and feel underwhelmed. I also guess that people can have a lot of beliefs/fanstaises about what awakenment is really like. Perhaps they expect eternal bliss or special powers or something. The seeing there is no self is actually quite ordinary. As you say, life goes on and there is no doer of any deed. Everything simply happens and arises in the forever now.

Does any of that make sense or answer your question?

Love

Amrita x

[amrita]

Hi Bayou,

I hope this finds you well. How are you and how are you getting on with this inquiry?

Best wishes to you

Amrita x

[Bayou1]

Hi Amrita!

Thanks for checking in with me! I continue to look at experience as memory allows / prompts and do not find a controller when I do look. There is experience but nothing outside of what is experienced in DE, which a self would have to be.

Per our earlier conversation, I'm not sure if I've crossed any gateless gates or if there is some lingering blockage. If only there was a sign via event a small shift in perspective that I could notice. Do you think that a new line of inquiry would help push me over?

Thanks again,
Bayou

[Bayou1]

Hi Amrita,

I'm just checking back in and hope that you're doing well. Do you have any exercises or lines of inquiry that I should continue with?

Thank you!
Bayou

[amrita]

Hi Bayou,

Apologies for any delay in getting back to you. I have only just seen thi. How are you getting on with things? Could you find a self anywhere? :)

Love

amrita

[Bayou1]

Hello!

Honestly, I feel a bit stuck as if there has been no progress at all lately. There's still a sense of self through thought and emotion, like thinking something funny, the body smiling / sensation of happiness, and a second thought like, "I can be so funny." That last thought, the one claiming the other thought and the body's reaction is hard to shake and easy to believe. I'm not sure what to do...

Thank you,
Bayou

[amrita]

Hey bayou,

In response to this,

" That last thought, the one claiming the other thought and the body's reaction is hard to shake and easy to believe. I'm not sure what to do...

You don't have to do anything at all. You believe a self exists and that is fair enough. We can all believe what we want. Its a free world as they used to say. Perhaps we have reached the end of this particular conversation and we will have to politely disagree with one another's position. It's really not a problem and we can still be friends :). My advice is to live your life as fully and as passionately and as lovingly as you can. Be good to other people and the planet. Make the most of your time here as its very short even though at times it can feel we are stuck.

If you are genuinely interested have a look at the other threads and see what other guides say. Perhaps there is another guide that will fit with where you are right now. My approach is very much looking at what is actually experienced through the bodily senses and then seeing what "mind" puts on top of that. I very much see the "self" is a mental construction that is superimposed on what is being experienced. I hoped you would see that too but it doesn't matter if you don't. Its just life doing its thing.

Maybe it would be good for you to take some time out and simply relax and learn how to be and let go or maybe not. Whatever happens I genuinely wish you all the best and every happiness.

Love

amrita XXX

[Bayou1]

Hi Amrita,

I just sent you a private message.

[Seamist]

Hi Bayou,
Ok, we've agreed that I will continue your guiding from here.
I mentioned exploring expectations to yo yesterday... any thoughts on that so far?

[Bayou1]

Hi Seamist,

Thanks again for agreeing to take me on. I really appreciate this generosity. Yes, per your PM, I've been thinking through expectations. One of my hang-ups - potentially my biggest hang-up - in the process so far is that I never felt a shift in perception or experience. My expectations don't include bliss, perfect happiness, a better life or anything like that. From my understanding and discussions, however, there should be a shift in how the world is seen, not that this makes life any better or perfect - just different than the status quo for people.

So, I'd say that that's my expectation: that I'll know without a doubt that I've gone through the gate. Something will have changed to some degree, big or small, that will tip me off that it's over. I understand that this shift differs from person to person, so I don't have a specific expectation on this, just that something will let me know that the illusion is seen through.

Talk to you soon!
Bayou

[Seamist]

Hi, Good start
Here's some more detailed questions regarding expectations:

What do you expect that "gating" is going to be like?
What do you want from it?
How do you imagine a "gated" human behaves?
What should it be like?
What will it give you, what do you hope for?
What don't you want it to be like?
Please answer as honestly as you can, then let me know what you notice

x

[Bayou1]

Hello,

What do you expect that "gating" is going to be like?

Descriptions that people put out there vary, but probably the most common one that I have seen is that it is the "cosmic joke," that is, something so obvious yet always overlooked that somehow just is finally seen due to a shift in perception. I expect that whatever the experience is that I would see that there never is and never has been a personal director or self and that the sense of "doership" fades away.

What do you want from it?

I just want to see the truth of what experience and life actually is. If there is no self, let's see the picture for what it really is.

How do you imagine a "gated" human behaves?

I think that they would be more flexible with life and less perturbed by all that happens. If one is not responsible for the actions, it would be easier to sit back, relax, and enjoy whatever the show is. Not that the show would change to be all rainbows and unicorns but just that whatever the show was would be not necessarily claimed as "my experience being controlled by me."

What should it be like?

What should passing through the gate be like? I imagine that it would be like a big "aha" moment: "You're kidding me? I've been seeing life differently this whole time?" Something simple and plain that finally comes into focus - the cosmic joke. That's how I envision it, but however it is, I just want some sort of realization that makes is plain that it's all over. No bells or magic, just a realization and end to seeking.

What will it give you, what do you hope for?

When it happens, there won't be a me to be given anything, but from my current perspective, I would really like to stop worrying so much, being troubled by trying to manage everything. The consolidated stress from every area of life adds up; being a manager / doer is tough sometimes.

What don't you want it to be like?

I don't want it to be something that is so imperceptible that it isn't noticed, which would never give the signal to come off that seeking path. Even if it is just a slight change, I want something that tells me that realization's happened and to just drop it all.

Please answer as honestly as you can, then let me know what you notice

It feels good, almost like a load off my shoulders, to put this all out on the table. There is some nervousness that some of these answers aren't the "correct" ones, but they're all honest. I hope that they can help give you some signals as to where my hang-up(s) may be.

Thank you,
Bayou