Refuting the me

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Bananafish
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Re: Refuting the me

Postby Bananafish » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:12 pm

Hello, Miron. :)


Harsh uneasiness and tightness, like it is not smooth at all Mostly in throat and chest.

They are intense and so strongly real more real than any ordinary sensation.

I would say they are malicious and harmful.



Thanks! Do these qualities make the feeling yours?
Is it “your” feeling?



Also, please drop the labels again and tell how you feel.
Would you have any idea what that feeling is?



Warm regards,



Bananafish

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Miron
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Re: Refuting the me

Postby Miron » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:50 pm

Thanks! Do these qualities make the feeling yours?
Is it “your” feeling?
No they do not or they do .
It depends on what I label me .
ME is floating concept pointing to nothing in reality the feeling is mine is meaningless.
Also, please drop the labels again and tell how you feel.
Would you have any idea what that feeling is?
how do I drop them if there is no me to do it .

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Re: Refuting the me

Postby Bananafish » Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:07 am

No they do not or they do .
It depends on what I label me .
ME is floating concept pointing to nothing in reality the feeling is mine is meaningless.



Thanks. :). Now, could you answer the same question with either yes or no?
Is any feeling “yours?”



how do I drop them if there is no me to do it .



Then, please drop the thought “there is no me to drop the labels.”
Without any thoughts, what is a feeling?



Regards,



Bananafish

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Miron
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Re: Refuting the me

Postby Miron » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:42 pm

Thanks. :). Now, could you answer the same question with either yes or no?
Is any feeling “yours?”
No

Then, please drop the thought “there is no me to drop the labels.”
Without any thoughts, what is a feeling?
I cant give an answer without thoughts.
a feeling is a though .

Thank you

Bananafish
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Re: Refuting the me

Postby Bananafish » Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:29 am

Hi!


I cant give an answer without thoughts.
a feeling is a though .



Nice. Is any particular feeling still bothering you?



Warm regards,



Bananafish

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Miron
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Re: Refuting the me

Postby Miron » Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:03 pm

Not if I don't conceptualize.
Conceptualizing is crucial to personal suffering.

Bananafish
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Re: Refuting the me

Postby Bananafish » Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:55 pm

Hi Miron. :)
Do you have anything you want to explore further?

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Miron
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Re: Refuting the me

Postby Miron » Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:25 pm

Hi Bananafish!

Well! Thoughts are arising and dissolving.
Not for now but I may have something later.
There is a transformation going on by the way.

Thank you!

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Re: Refuting the me

Postby Bananafish » Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:28 am

Great to hear that, Miron. :)


Would you like to let it unfold, without answering questions,
or do you want to try a set of questions to clarify the areas to be investigated
further, if any?



Warm regards,



Bananafish

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Miron
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Re: Refuting the me

Postby Miron » Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:33 pm

I would go with some questions.

Thank you Bananafish

Bananafish
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Re: Refuting the me

Postby Bananafish » Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:01 pm

Ok, here you are! Please take your time answering them. Enjoy. :)


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? Give an example from your own recent experiences to how things happens and how things work.
b) What are you responsible for?
c) Give examples from your own recent experiences to how all this works.

6) Anything to add?

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Miron
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Re: Refuting the me

Postby Miron » Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:04 pm

Hi Bananafish!
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?
No there isn't, there never was.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.
For the last few years, me was the victim of random meaningless agony and suffering, me was trying to end and survive through various compensating concept of achievement and accomplishing material and spiritual goals,but these are conceptual stories about what happen, the suffering the victim the me the no me are product of conceptualizing,
And I can see the same about every thought.
3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days
.


There is a sense of transparency, feeling and thought are wavering in nothingness, but it is not permanent, but it is unfolding, there is aloofness to the stream of thoughts, there is no longer holding to or great distinguishing between concepts.


4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
Some sort of netiNeti - like mantra has arisen spontaneously
Consistent respond to every single thought which is "how is that a problem".
A lot of hidden thoughts and beliefs has been unraveled.
Me and no me are both concepts, so me is not what I believed it to be.


5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? Give an example from your own recent experiences to how things happens and how things work.
They are just concepts trying to capsulate what happens that is what are to me now.
b) What are you responsible for?
Since there is no actual separate self there is no responsibility for any separate one.

c) Give examples from your own recent experiences to how all this works.
I don't wanna give labels and conceptualized theories about how all this works.
6) Anything to add?
Is this free fall going to stop,I feel like trying to conceptualize a problem, but how is that a problem anyway, freedom is sweet but terrifying.

Bananafish
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Re: Refuting the me

Postby Bananafish » Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:17 pm

Hi Miron. :)


c) Give examples from your own recent experiences to how all this works.
I don't wanna give labels and conceptualized theories about how all this works.


Ok, so let's modify the question a bit ...
what is it that makes people believe in the illusion of decision, intention, free will,
choice and control? What's the process?



Here is one thing, Miron. You can actually use labels and strip off labels.
I heard someone say something like using a thorn to pull off another thorn ...

You might have subtle beliefs about labels and concepts, but if all the thoughts and ideas about
labels are dropped, aren't you free whether you use it or not?



So try it. Use labels and describe truth. Make it as close as truth itself. Can you?
What is decision, intention, free will, choice and control in your everyday life?


Warm regards,


Bananafish

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Miron
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Re: Refuting the me

Postby Miron » Fri Nov 23, 2018 1:51 pm

They are ways of thinking about reality which sprouted after
The arising of the belief that there is an autonomous seperat self.

Thank you
Miron

Bananafish
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Re: Refuting the me

Postby Bananafish » Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:01 pm

Hi again! :)


Can you give actual examples with which I can know the actual scene
in your everyday life? When and where do you see "decision, intention, free will,
choice and control," and how have you seen through them?


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