Thanks.
Bingo!1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
The self only exists as a thought. A habit of thought, and has never been anything else, ever.
Yes. There won't necessarily be batches of three thoughts at a time (as I am sure you are aware) but you are explaining how thinking creates a subject/object split and gives the impression thqat there is a separate self doing something. Probably begins in early infancy when objects are identified and seen as separate.2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
I think the illusion of self begins sometime between the first and second year of life. From my experience I would say that the illusion of self happens when a perception is thought about in three ways or stages. An oak tree is perceived . Stage one, “I” see a tree. This thought implies that there is a self who is the observer of the perception. Stage two, “I” see that it is an oak. This thought implies that there is a self waiting in your head who has evaluated past knowledge and determined that an oak was perceived. Stage three, “ I” have seen an oak. This thought implies that an overall self now owns the memory of seeing and correctly identifying a tree. Three thoughts that seem like one thought that strongly suggest that an experiencer, evaluator, and repository of memories, you, lives in your head.
Liberation is indeed the word.3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
Seeing this is hugely liberating. I had thought of myself as a being who might have been struggling for billions of years. Sometimes rising, sometimes falling but always failing to extricate myself from the cycle of birth and death.
Now, there is no I to be reborn. Now there is safety, certainty, happiness and very pleasant physical sensations that arise when I contemplate reality. I find myself frequently surprised by happiness and peace. I laugh easily and often. I’ve had a few profound zen experiences over the years and I thought this would fade away as those did, but it hasn't.
To paraphrase Mumon who compiled the Gateless Gate; "He who crosses this gateless gate walks freely between heaven and earth".
This question means, 'What was the pointer, instruction, or excercise that made the penny drop'.4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
Well, long story short, I had a terrible upbringing. There was a lot of fear and mental anguish. I was totally unprepared for life. I was a terrible person. I suffered a lot.
So, I’ve been a seeker since my mid-teens. Better late than never, I found L.U.. All the different things I had tried, all the different books and teachers were just self improvement. Strangely, so many respected Buddhists teach that the self can be improved to the point that you can take it with you into enlightenment.
Great answers in relation to choice, decision and free will - especially since we didn't investigate it. Am unsure how much further we need to go into how things work without just using labels like 'conditionality' or 'emptiness'. When we submit this thread for more senior guides (for verification) if they want us to explore this a bit we can although there are other forums for exploring death, time etc.5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
Decision is a thought of having made a choice from available options.
Intention is a thought of willing to do a certain thing.
Free will is an illusion that “we” can choose any course of action at this moment. In reality, what will be done is determined by all that has been thought said and done in the past.
Choice is really an illusion the same as free will, for the same reason.
Control...an illusion. Same as above.
What makes things happen? Any happening is both a result and a cause. Things happen due to all that has happened going back forever.
How does it work?
Everything? I hope to be able to explain that one day. One of those existential questions I mentioned. Let me give it a shot. Being exists. It did not “come” into existence. It is outside of time. I don’t understand why or how but Being gave rise to space/time and matter, (I really hope to understand that one someday). Matter followed the laws of physics and here we are. Since everything except Being has causes and conditions, it is said by the non-duality folks that the everything doesn't really exist. They also say that nothing has ever really happened. Those are very esoteric and useless things to tell people. Not unlike saying that your children don’t exist and never happened. I want to see if I am missing some deeper truth there, what it is, and how to express it in a useful way.
What am I responsible for?
Only as far as possible to act in accordance with the Truth.
6) Anything to add?
I would like to improve my understanding. It may seem overly ambitious but I want to be able to answer all the existential questions if that's possible. I want to develop the ability to help sincere seekers, and those poor sidetracked ones who, based on their satori experiences, want to be gurus.
Great. I have added your previous answer to No6 here as it expresses gratitude. This emotion is indicative that a shift has occurred rather than an intelectual understanding. :)6) Anything to add?
I am very grateful to those who developed LU and to you Michael, my guide through this process. LU will lead so many to true liberation. It's really a brilliant program.
I live in Southern California, a place of many spiritual paths and teachers. None of them can guide anyone to liberation. They believe in the self and they operate self improvement programs. The poor things just don't know any better. They were trained by people who didn't know any better.
Thank you
Fantastic.
All I need you to do is re answe No 4. What pointer or excercise lead to seeing that the self is illusory. If it was a gradual effect over a day or two that is fine. I remember it occurred in the middle of the night for you. What had you been looking at/inquiring into that day.
After that I will present our conversation to be confirmed. They may have a further question or twoif they feel there is remaining unclarity.
All best wishers,
Michael
