Refuting the me

[Miron]

it feels normal actually .

thank you
Miron

[Bananafish]

Hello, Miron.

it feels normal actually .

Do you feel the understanding is intellectual?
Is there any doubt?


Is there any issue you want to investigate?



Regards,



Bananafish

[Miron]

Can understanding be anything other than intellectual ?
how can I Know That there is doubt ?
are issues dependent on seeing that there is no 'I' without doubt in order to be cleared ?
am I supposed to feel something after seeing without doubt that there is no 'I' ?

thank you .
Miron

[Bananafish]

HI Miron. :)

Can understanding be anything other than intellectual ?

Yes. Simply believing that there isn't any key on the sofa (according to any information you got)
and actually seeing that there isn't any on the sofa are different. In the same way, without referring
to what others said, nor thought, logical conclusion, memory or image, can you say that
there is no "I" here and now?

how can I Know That there is doubt ?

Do any thoughts appear that suggest any kind of doubt?

are issues dependent on seeing that there is no 'I' without doubt in order to be cleared ?

No. If you have any issues to be investigated, please bring it up.

am I supposed to feel something after seeing without doubt that there is no 'I' ?

No. I just asked if you feel anything different, but it's perfectly ok when you don't feel
anything. I'm inviting you to observe even the subtle changes that might be overlooked.




Peace,



Bananafish

[Miron]

Hi bananafish , sorry for the late respond ,I had a busy mind .

Yes. Simply believing that there isn't any key on the sofa (according to any information you got)
and actually seeing that there isn't any on the sofa are different. In the same way, without referring
to what others said, nor thought, logical conclusion, memory or image, can you say that
there is no "I" here and now?

I can say there is no "I" here and now as an experience or experienc er ,"I" is just as any floating concept It is added,I can see also that everything else is just concept.

Do any thoughts appear that suggest any kind of doubt?

both concepts there is no "I" or there is "I" are irrefutable and unprovable ,therefore maybe meaningless.

No. If you have any issues to be investigated, please bring it up.

something that goes like depression is chemical and cannot be dissipated by deconstructing beliefs and concepts.

No. I just asked if you feel anything different, but it's perfectly ok when you don't feel
anything. I'm inviting you to observe even the subtle changes that might be overlooked.

sometimes there is clarity ,openness and some ephemeral relief,and thoughts like suffering revolves around Personal I. Personal I is the thorn but who is the victim well no one ,

it is plain meaningless these concepts.


thank you
Miron

[Bananafish]

Hi Miron. :). Good to hear from you.

something that goes like depression is chemical and cannot be dissipated by deconstructing beliefs and concepts.

Is there resistance to it?

What is that “something?”

Does it have to be dissipated, and can it be done?

What tells you that it’s “chemical?”



Best wishes,



Bananafish

[Miron]

Hi Bananafish

Is there resistance to it?

What is that “something?”

Does it have to be dissipated, and can it be done?

What tells you that it’s “chemical?”

Not resistance but feeling of hopelessness and despair .

That something is a thought .

No matter what 'I' believe or think there is that underlying feeling of depression .




thank you
Miron

[Bananafish]

Hello, Miron. :)

Not resistance but feeling of hopelessness and despair .

How is that feeling sensed? As thoughts? Bodily sensations? Or else?

That something is a thought .

Is a thought depression Itself?

No matter what 'I' believe or think there is that underlying feeling of depression .

Let’s focus on that feeling.
Do you feel that the feeling is a problem?

If so, how?


Best wishes,


Bananafish

[Miron]

Hi Bananafish!

How is that feeling sensed? As thoughts? Bodily sensations? Or else?

Its both It is a combination between the two ,If one of the two is absent the experience is no longer .

Is a thought depression Itself?

It is a thought that points to an actual agony.

Let’s focus on that feeling.
Do you feel that the feeling is a problem?

If so, how?

It is a problem Yes it sucks It is debilitating.
But really It is not, both are concepts.
They are lables.


'problem' only exists in the world of concipts

[Bananafish]

Hi Miron. :)

Its both It is a combination between the two ,If one of the two is absent the experience is no longer .

What combines them?
If you didn’t name them (combined) “despair,” what would they be?

It is a thought that points to an actual agony.

Could you elaborate on what this “agony” is?

'problem' only exists in the world of concipts

Great that you saw this!



Regards,



Bananafish

[Miron]

Hi Bananafish . :)

What combines them?
If you didn’t name them (combined) “despair,” what would they be?

Nothing combines them they happen simultaneously.
I do not know what they would be.

Could you elaborate on what this “agony” is?

Well I cannot ,all I can do is giving you labels and concepts which never convey the real thing .

Great that you saw this!

Thank you
Miron

[Bananafish]

Hello, Miron. :)

Nothing combines them they happen simultaneously.
I do not know what they would be.

Could you take a look at the sense aspect of that feeling,
and describe it? Please feel free to use any labels when doing it.

Well I cannot ,all I can do is giving you labels and concepts which never convey the real thing .

Yes. Now, it's time to use labels without believing that the labels are the real thing.
Labels, in my experience, are a very useful tool to dig out something that is to be seen that are unseen.



Thank you,



Bananafish

[Miron]

Hi Bananafish

Could you take a look at the sense aspect of that feeling,
and describe it? Please feel free to use any labels when doing it.

Nothing describes it really what is the use of these words
What is the use of labeling.
I cannot name it.
Iam trying to capture it with a lable
a feeling of frustration and exhaustion,heaviness and Suffocation.

Yes. Now, it's time to use labels without believing that the labels are the real thing.
Labels, in my experience, are a very useful tool to dig out something that is to be seen that are unseen

Nice.

Thank you
Miron

[Bananafish]

Hi Miron. :)

Iam trying to capture it with a lable
a feeling of frustration and exhaustion,heaviness and Suffocation.

Can you describe them in terms of bodily sensations?
In which part of the body are they felt?



Do they have any distinct quality?



If they had color, what color would they be?

If you were to compare them to something else that
has color and shape, what would they be?




Warm regards,



Bananafish

[Miron]

HI Bananafish!

Can you describe them in terms of bodily sensations?
In which part of the body are they felt?

Harsh uneasiness and tightness, like it is not smooth at all Mostly in throat and chest.

Do they have any distinct quality?

They are intense and so strongly real more real than any ordinary sensation.

If they had color, what color would they be?

No they do not,but I would choose deep blue blackness.

If you were to compare them to something else that
has color and shape, what would they be?

Beyond concepts there is no difference.
I would say they are malicious and harmful.

Thank you.
Miron