Looking for a long time and quite confused.

[SomeOne]

Hey,

Anything in particular you want to look at from your above post?

It's fine for now, I'll just mention something when I feel it's important.

Are you good to continue?

Yes!

Best,
Felix

[Sarah7]

Good morning Felix
So from what you wrote:

Consider the following statement - Nothing exists outside the present moment.

Take a little time to consider that statement throughout your daily life. Look and consider it in different situations, and see if you can actually find anything outside the present moment.

Look at all your experiences so far, you’re current experiences, and those you hope and dream of. Can you find anything that exists outside the present moment? Take as much time as you need and look as far and wide as you like. Let me know if you find anything :-)

Have a look at the present moment - Can you find a separate 'I' there? What is it you DO find in the present moment? (perhaps use the framework of direct experience to categorise what you find - i.e. thoughts, feelings, physical)

What is time?

Do YOU exist in the way you are assumed to? Is there an 'historical you', 'present you', or 'future you'? Is there an actual entity which lives through time and space, or only thoughts which appear to pop up in time? And do thoughts appear just one at a time?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[SomeOne]

Hi,

so, I've been away for some time, but I would actually like to see this through.

To be honest I think I'm here/back because I'm not satisfied/unhappy with where I am in live, and feel like it's impossible to change that for the better. Part of it is that I feel myself to be not good enough for where I would like to be, and that it's futile anyway, since I can't do it or because it's scary to try.

Another reason I'm back is that it has simply stuck with me after I had spent a lot of time here. And in the past few months the things that I learned/saw here have never quite left me, always popping up in my thoughts again from time to time (or all the time?).

Funnily enough, while reading through your last post again, and looking at

you’re current experiences, and those you hope and dream of. Can you find anything that exists outside the present moment?

I had a really liberating moment again as I looked at the things "I hope and dream of" (i.e., where I would like to be/what I would like to do) as what they are in the present moment (majorly feelings/sensations). Funny. I'm a bit shocked at the effect that had, as I somehow feel completely different from 5 minutes ago when I wrote the first parts. I don't feel like so much change is necessary anymore, but I can't really say why, since (obviously) nothing has changed. Wow. I'll just leave it at that for now.

Thanks again for all your guidance and help so far!

Best,
Felix

[Sarah7]

Hey Felix!

I don't feel like so much change is necessary anymore, but I can't really say why, since (obviously) nothing has changed. Wow. I'll just leave it at that for now.

How do you feel about this now then?
When something feels wrong, or not right, or it could be better if only.... etc. Have a look. Where is that experienced? How is that experienced?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[SomeOne]

How do you feel about this now then?

Well, after sleeping on it for a night I was pretty much back in the old mood today. Apart from that, at some point during the day it felt like I figured some stuff out, and have more of a clear direction now, but this might just change again. Somehow it's not really possible to control the future and what happens tomorrow, maybe a different attitude would be more helpful here.

When something feels wrong, or not right, or it could be better if only.... etc. Have a look. Where is that experienced? How is that experienced?

My first reaction to this: in thought! Regarding time, e.g. past and future, this was also the only place I found them, in thoughts.

But regarding "wrong/not right/better if only" such things show up as thoughts. Also as sensations/emotions. At some point during the last few months I noticed that continuity seems to be something created through thoughts. "These emotions are the same as before"/"These emotions are different", etc. are all somehow only thoughts. There is somehow only what is experienced "now", and no such thing as past/future.

Maybe consequences are also only imagined? That is, the consequences of if things don't get better are not really real, but imagined. However, it also seems true that thoughts can very accurately determine some things that will occur "in the future". Such as, if I go to bed today I will wake up there tomorrow, if there are some "problems" in my life they will come up again, and (usually) not suddenly change.

This has made me look much more closely at the lack of continuity, which, in itself, only seems to be some concept in thoughts. Feels like I am looking at "now", and at what is, for the first time in a while. Funny how that works. That is again only a thought.

All of this is a lot of looking inward, does it also help with actually changing things, i.e., taking action somehow? If so, how do I do that? I know that's not exactly the goal of this process, but it is something I feel like I keep coming back to.

Thank you so much!
Best,
Felix

[Sarah7]

Hey Felix

My first reaction to this: in thought! Regarding time, e.g. past and future, this was also the only place I found them, in thoughts.

Excellent.

But regarding "wrong/not right/better if only" such things show up as thoughts. Also as sensations/emotions. At some point during the last few months I noticed that continuity seems to be something created through thoughts. "These emotions are the same as before"/"These emotions are different", etc. are all somehow only thoughts. There is somehow only what is experienced "now", and no such thing as past/future.

Well spotted. What stays the same or is permanent? Anything? Look around you, in you. What is constant?
And notice how long it takes thought to come in. Is it a case of thought coming in after whatever has happened has happened? If so is thought capturing that now? Or is it always on catchup comment/judgement or whatever?

Maybe consequences are also only imagined? That is, the consequences of if things don't get better are not really real, but imagined.

Good question. What do you notice?

However, it also seems true that thoughts can very accurately determine some things that will occur "in the future". Such as, if I go to bed today I will wake up there tomorrow, if there are some "problems" in my life they will come up again, and (usually) not suddenly change.

Have you ever noticed thoughts coming up with all sorts of scenarios but not one being the outcome?

This has made me look much more closely at the lack of continuity, which, in itself, only seems to be some concept in thoughts. Feels like I am looking at "now", and at what is, for the first time in a while. Funny how that works. That is again only a thought.

And

does it also help with actually changing things,

What else is there Felix? Where can you go?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[SomeOne]

Well spotted. What stays the same or is permanent? Anything? Look around you, in you. What is constant?

What does 'constant' even mean? Somehow all of reality is being created right now, or rather exists only now. Quite some time ago I described what experience/live is as a continuous flow of attention/focus shifting, thoughts/etc., that feels relevant again. Things that I see lying around on my table, or emotions that come up, it really is as if everything is always "seen for the first time". The past seems to exist in the form of memories. Or rather, current experiences that are labeled with things such as "I remember ....".

And notice how long it takes thought to come in. Is it a case of thought coming in after whatever has happened has happened? If so is thought capturing that now? Or is it always on catchup comment/judgement or whatever?

There seems to be not much else but thought. Thought doesn't seem to have precognition, it doesn't know what will happen next. but it comments afterwards; "I just saw that, I am seeing this, I am writing this, ..." and so on. Thought also seems to lead from one moment into the next. It seems to spin a story, where current thoughts react to memories/experiences/sight/hearing/feelings coming up, and spinning a story from there.

Maybe consequences are also only imagined? That is, the consequences of if things don't get better are not really real, but imagined.

Good question. What do you notice?

Why are consequences imagined so negatively? It can feel very bad, and can be a lot of pressure. At least, the imagined consequences are also 'now', it's just an imagination happening 'now', not the real future or something. However, sometimes positive consequences can also be a motivating factor, and a reason to do something. But these don't always work out I guess.

Have you ever noticed thoughts coming up with all sorts of scenarios but not one being the outcome?

Of course! It seems to happen quite some time. This ties in with what I wrote in response to the previous question, the imagined scenario is only 'now', it isn't 'the future'. Maybe there are better motivators than some imagined scenario in the future, like innate, "obviously right" reasons to do something.

This has made me look much more closely at the lack of continuity, which, in itself, only seems to be some concept in thoughts. Feels like I am looking at "now", and at what is, for the first time in a while. Funny how that works. That is again only a thought.

And

does it also help with actually changing things,

What else is there Felix? Where can you go?

I'm not quite sure here what you mean, especially the 'And'. Should I view the two pieces of text together somehow? Well, if everything is 'now', there isn't anyplace I could go to.

What is change? Are some bad feelings regarding the past, some unacknowledged stuff behind the desire for change?

Thanks!

Best,
Felix

[Sarah7]

Hey Felix

What is change? Are some bad feelings regarding the past, some unacknowledged stuff behind the desire for change?

Past and memory are interesting. What we remember, how we remember. You said something about thought weaving a story. Does it do that with the past? Does the story of the past change and morph?

In regards to the above, again good question. What do you notice?
Do we like to sit ‘with’ uncomfortable feelings and sensations? Or move away from?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[SomeOne]

Hey Sarah,

Past and memory are interesting. What we remember, how we remember. You said something about thought weaving a story. Does it do that with the past? Does the story of the past change and morph?

Yes. The story of the past is woven into the continuous flow of thoughts that is going on now. The story of the past can also change, e.g., depending on the current mood, or when 'insight' into whatever situation occurred happens. That's a funny thing somehow, because the past should be absolute, since it happened exactly as it did. Is this just the same kind of commentary that thought also contains about things that are occurring now? Just that it comments on something that is in the past? In that sense there isn't really a difference between now and the past, as in the moment a thought comments on something, it is already gone again. The past seems to be present 'now'.

In regards to the above, again good question. What do you notice?

I'm not quite getting what you refer to here.

Do we like to sit ‘with’ uncomfortable feelings and sensations? Or move away from?

I would rather say move away from. But the thoughts etc. that come up and form this 'desire to move away', they are somehow also not chosen, but just appear. So the reaction is the same as the initial 'uncomfortable' feelings in that way, they just appear. Who decides what is 'uncomfortable'? Things we don't want to face, to look at for some reason? Where does this come from again?

Thanks.

Best,
Felix

[Sarah7]

Hey Felix
I was referring to your question......’what is change? Are some bad feelings regarding the past, some unacknowledged stuff behind the desire for change.’
I said good question. What do you notice?

because the past should be absolute, since it happened exactly as it did

Ah but did the past happen exactly as it did? Or is that thought again? How can we know? Can we experience the past now? Or just thoughts about it now?

I would rather say move away from. But the thoughts etc. that come up and form this 'desire to move away', they are somehow also not chosen, but just appear. So the reaction is the same as the initial 'uncomfortable' feelings in that way, they just appear. Who decides what is 'uncomfortable'? Things we don't want to face, to look at for some reason? Where does this come from again?

So the next time some feeling or thoughts of an uncomfortable nature arise see what happens when you don’t move away. Just be with them, explore them, get curious about them. What do you notice?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[SomeOne]

Hey Sarah,

So the next time some feeling or thoughts of an uncomfortable nature arise see what happens when you don’t move away. Just be with them, explore them, get curious about them. What do you notice?

So, I did this a few times throughout the day today. What I noticed is, that upon closer inspection, some hidden feelings show up, such as fear or sadness, but inspection/curiosity also seem to take the edge away from such uncomfortable thoughts. They don't feel as uncomfortable anymore, and a certain "peace" seems to set in. It feels like the compulsiveness of more negative thoughts arising is becoming less strong. The desire to move away also becomes much weaker. This felt really insightful!

I was referring to your question......’what is change? Are some bad feelings regarding the past, some unacknowledged stuff behind the desire for change.’
I said good question. What do you notice?

Change seems to be an elusive thing. It's not really clear when something has actually changed, or what specific event means that something has changed. Desire for change is also, in its essence, trying to move away from something uncomfortable. It seems like focusing more on whatever I'm trying to move away from would be much more fruitful than trying to achieve "change".

Ah but did the past happen exactly as it did? Or is that thought again? How can we know? Can we experience the past now? Or just thoughts about it now?

Well, the past must have happened exactly as it did, how else would it have happened? However, it's of course also thought that says that. We also can't experience the past now. There can only be thoughts about it now, it's almost impossible to exactly say what happened at a past moment. But things like video recordings etc. show part of what happened in the past. In the end, there are only thoughts about the past that come up now.

Thanks!

Best,
Felix

[Sarah7]

Morning Felix

So, I did this a few times throughout the day today. What I noticed is, that upon closer inspection, some hidden feelings show up, such as fear or sadness, but inspection/curiosity also seem to take the edge away from such uncomfortable thoughts. They don't feel as uncomfortable anymore, and a certain "peace" seems to set in. It feels like the compulsiveness of more negative thoughts arising is becoming less strong. The desire to move away also becomes much weaker. This felt really insightful!

Ok so keep on with this. Getting curious about, exploring and generally turning towards feelings of an uncomfortable nature. Also notice of thought wants to use this technique to get rid of uncomfortable thoughts! Lol, thought wanting rid of other thoughts! ;)
Well noticed about desire!
If anger comes up, or any other strong emotion explore that too.
Hugs Sarah xxx

[SomeOne]

Hey Sarah,

Ok so keep on with this. Getting curious about, exploring and generally turning towards feelings of an uncomfortable nature.

Have been doing this the last few days when I remembered to. It has continued to be very insightful. The thoughts that are uncomfortable feel like they are not talking about something that is, but are creating this uncomfort themselves. The question is: Who chooses theses thoughts? Why would anyone choose negative thoughts? They feel more and more deliberate, self-chosen, less like something that is "happening to me". Also, there seems to be nothing affected by such thoughts, something that then feels "uncomfortable". The uncomfort are really the thoughts themselves.

Also notice of thought wants to use this technique to get rid of uncomfortable thoughts! Lol, thought wanting rid of other thoughts! ;)

I noticed this a few times! I will continue looking out for this.

If anger comes up, or any other strong emotion explore that too.

Will also do these, not much of anger came up, but will keep exploring.

One thing that came up while doing this where thoughts along the lines of "when am I done?"/"what is the goal?"/"where to get to?"/"is this all?/I want a solution, this is just a busy exercise, what is the point?". I looked into these as well. These thoughts also seem to create the negativity they criticize themselves. They are not talking about a problem, they are also inventing it. But they seem to maybe point to some deeper emotion or something. All this looking/exploring has also softened a lot of these uncomfortable thoughts/feelings, turning them into more positive thoughts instead.

Thanks!

Best,
Felix

[Sarah7]

Hey!
Excellent noticing Felix!

Have been doing this the last few days when I remembered to. It has continued to be very insightful. The thoughts that are uncomfortable feel like they are not talking about something that is, but are creating this uncomfort themselves. The question is: Who chooses theses thoughts? Why would anyone choose negative thoughts? They feel more and more deliberate, self-chosen, less like something that is "happening to me". Also, there seems to be nothing affected by such thoughts, something that then feels "uncomfortable". The uncomfort are really the thoughts themselves.

Do you intentionally bring any thoughts? Or do they come and go on their own? If you do bring them from where and
how?
Can you send them away, stop them or get rid? Can you suppress your next thought before it arises? Does it work?
Do you know what you're going to think before you think it? Sit quietly for a moment and try to predict your next thought. Does it work?
Do you plan what you are going to think before you think it?
Is there is a thought that you can control?

One thing that came up while doing this where thoughts along the lines of "when am I done?"/"what is the goal?"/"where to get to?"/"is this all?/I want a solution, this is just a busy exercise, what is the point?". I looked into these as well. These thoughts also seem to create the negativity they criticize themselves. They are not talking about a problem, they are also inventing it. But they seem to maybe point to some deeper emotion or something.

Maybe point? Explore! Do they? Or is thought just doing what it does?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[SomeOne]

Hey,

Do you intentionally bring any thoughts? Or do they come and go on their own? If you do bring them from where and
how?
Can you send them away, stop them or get rid? Can you suppress your next thought before it arises? Does it work?
Do you know what you're going to think before you think it? Sit quietly for a moment and try to predict your next thought. Does it work?
Do you plan what you are going to think before you think it?
Is there is a thought that you can control?

At some point, I noticed that there is just thought, and nobody/nothing there that could "predict" anything. What would that look like, this "predicting"? It doesn't make sense. There is no such thing there. There is only thought.

This was somehow a huge realization.

Maybe point? Explore! Do they? Or is thought just doing what it does?

Thought definitely plays a big role here. A lot of it is story. There is also some fear there.

The first point was really big. Kind of more of a realization than what I wrote down.

Best,
Felix