Standing and knocking at the gate.

[Lindafin]

Hello,
"Knock and the door will be opened unto you" is what springs to mind. I am looking forward to working with my
guide who will show me where to from here and where I may be stuck.

[Elizabeth]

Hi Lindafin, welcome to the forum.
What is an I and where has it been? :-)
Please tell a little about the explorations so far and what expectations of awakening or enlightenment have fueled the exploring.
Much love, Elizabeth

[Lindafin]

Hi Elizabeth,

What is an I and where has it been? :-)

This 'I' that I have believed myself to be is now seen to be an illusion. A mirage which I have held to be real for the past 54 years. A concept created by thoughts and words that the 'I' believed to be real. These were perpetuated by what was thought or said about me by my self, my family and others.
Where has the I been? It has been in my story, my understanding, my experience and my 'personality'. All now clearly seen as concepts! Wow, so simple.
I have just re-read my first sentence typed here. I have read it in books and thought it to sounded so false. Now it is the perfect way to express this.

Please tell a little about the explorations so far and what expectations of awakening or enlightenment have fueled the exploring.

I have always felt a longing for unity, harmony and ease in my life. I have looked in the Christian faith, Vipassana and for the past couple of years I have been looking at non-duality. My husband discovered this site last week.
I was expecting a freedom from the automaticity of my reactions to life. I have felt like a puppet with someone pulling the strings.
I listened to a podcast from Paul Hedderman last Tuesday and there seems to have been a shift after hearing an analogy he used.
Life has been different for the last couple of days. Have I flipped?

[Elizabeth]

Hello Lindafin,
That certainly sounds like Gate. You may be through. Shall we mess about a little and see what the clarity would like to say about a few simple pointers? Worst case scenario is that they build a picture of how a self builds, or rebuilds. When the belief in a separate self tries to hook onto experience, these help to pinpoint the hooks.
First, simply to see the thoughts. In Vipassana (Goenka's?) there is much sitting with the thought's ABOUT life and objects. You get to see how the narrative in the thought is not life, or objects, or that patch under your nose.
In much the same way, let's look at a glass in front of you. Note how we automatically call it MY glass.
Please trace for me how a MY gets applied to A glass.
Then if you would, branch out and look at other applications, how extensive is this MY-nification?
Smiling to hear your reply.
Love, Elizabeth

[Lindafin]

Hello Elizabeth,
Thank you for your reply.

Shall we mess about a little and see what the clarity would like to say about a few simple pointers?

Absolutely. Lead away.

First, simply to see the thoughts.

While learning/doing Vipassana meditation, I saw that the thoughts were impermanent and that I could see the thoughts and allow them to pass by without attaching them to myself. Seeing myself as a concept or thought has taken a little more looking.

Please trace for me how a MY gets applied to A glass.

From my understanding, objects are seen eg. a glass, then thoughts come up to assess the glass in relation to a me. My perception of the glass....it's beauty, size, usefulness and value is all related back to the me. For instance a glass breaks. How I would feel about a glass that was a common item sitting on a shelf in a store is totally different to how I would feel if it was a glass that had belonged to my Great-grandmother, given to her by my Great-grandfather on their Wedding Day. Passed down to my Grandmother, then my Mother and finally to me. For the latter, I would imagine I'd be very upset about it breaking due to the story about MY glass and its significance in MY life, when in reality it's just a glass.

Then if you would, branch out and look at other applications, how extensive is this MY-nification?

It seems to me that children are in life for the first couple of years without the MY distinction (MY-nification). At some point the child sees itself as an independent, separate entity and everything becomes about the ME. No wonder there are tantrums and that stage of life is often referred to as the terrible twos! Ha ha.
For me, I was two when my sister was born and then the me was in full force. "She's my Mummy, not yours!" "That's my teddy." "My toy". This is so automatic and it seems transparent. In adulthood it became "Woe betide you if you mess with my husband or my kids!"

Note how we automatically call it MY glass.

This becomes such a habit, it is then unseen that I was the one who claimed that Mummy, Teddy, glass, husband or child to be mine. We have been constantly building and reinforcing the picture of the separate self. Causing our own suffering!
Sending My love,
Linda

[Elizabeth]

Hi Linda!
Wow, nice looking! Clarity speaks!
Tell me, if the only thing that separates an I from everything is a thought, without thought, what is seen? felt, experienced?
Look past the I. What is behind? Anything?

Directly go there, please, and LOOK.
Much love, Elizabeth

[Lindafin]

Hi Elizabeth,

Wow, nice looking! Clarity speaks!

Thank you.

Tell me, if the only thing that separates an I from everything is a thought, without thought, what is seen? felt, experienced?

What is seen is the object. What is felt is the sensation. What is experienced is the experience. Once a label is attached to any of the former, it becomes something I see, I feel, I experience. Duality!

Look past the I. What is behind? Anything?

Looking past the I, all there is is awareness or presence.

[Elizabeth]

Morning, Linda.
Yes. And beyond any awareness or presence? Please look there. Just one more 'step back'. It's available now. Or it may come later. But worth taking that step back and remaining open.

And it is time for the Gate questions :-) You've already answered in some way, so please be patient. And you may have a different answer today, that's how it works...yesterday's answer may not be today's. It's fresh, every time.

1) Is there a you, at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?

2) Explain in detail what the self is and how it works.

3) How does it Feel to be here? Does it match up to expectations?

4) How are you going to describe this process to your kid(s), or beloved others, and would you recommend it to them?

Much love, and interested in the answers, of course!
Elizabeth

[Lindafin]

Good evening Elizabeth,

And beyond any awareness or presence? Please look there.

There is nothing.

1) Is there a you, at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?

No.

2) Explain in detail what the self is and how it works

The self is a concept. A separate I or me arises in childhood and from that moment on relates everything to that reference point. Because of this self-centredness suffering arises. It perpetuates itself until we no longer see who we really are.

3) How does it Feel to be here?

Totally natural!

Does it match up to expectations?

Yes.

4) How are you going to describe this process to your kid(s), or beloved others, and would you recommend it to them?

My kids know that I have been on this self inquiry journey for quite a while. We have all participated in the Landmark Forum and I have told my youngest son that I've been looking at Non-duality. He seems very curious about it.
I would tell them that I started to look for "Who am I....really?" Not standing for another possibility of who I am, but really looking. Saying..... "If I am not my thoughts". "If I am not my feelings". "If I am not my body". "Then who am I?"
I guess I would tell them that even when they come up with an answer, they should keep looking and to look through direct experience.

Would you recommend it to them?

Absolutely, who would not want to share the truth with their loved ones, when discovered by oneself. Wrong choice of words perhaps hahaha!
Thank you for sticking with me through this part of the 'journey'.
Looking forward to your reply.
Much love, Linda x

[Elizabeth]

Morning, Linda.
It's been a pleasure, and very easy :-)
Have put this thread up to see if any other guides have a question. If they do I'll be back soon, bearing the gift of inquiry.
What's next? We can add you to a couple of groups online. Two of them are for kicking the tires and reporting the results of the test drives, no kidding. They are a mostly dogma-free zone where the realization is not immediately co-opted by an attractive belief system, as seems to happen so frequently.
A couple of them are for shedding the more ingrained patterns and habits that hang on in almost all of us. Inquiry, again.
I'll PM you about them when we are through here, if that is wanted.
Much love, and whoever your husband is, much love to the two open spaces.
Elizabeth

[Elizabeth]

Hi Linda,
I have a request for a little more info. Since you did so much of this work on your own, we did not see the progression. Can you give us a rant?
By rant I mean how it was before, why you started looking, what it took to see it, and how it is now. Please don't hold back.
Oddly, this sort of thing is what constitutes a teaching moment for others who may look at this thread. Your heartfelt, honest expression of this journey almost always resonates with many other seekers.
Much love, Elizabeth

[Lindafin]

Dear Elizabeth,

how it was before

I took this to mean before deconstructing the separate entity, the ME or I.
I was totally run by my thoughts and my feelings. I was a total "Drama Queen". I mean "What is life, if it is not all of the experiences, filtered through my thoughts, to sort out the drama?" Right?
I have been on this search all of my life. Looking for answers through religion, Landmark Education courses and discussions with friends. But all they seemed to do is re-inforce the sense of an independant separate self. I changed and evolved over the years, but there was no freedom.

why you started looking

One day in 2004, while sitting quietly with my eyes shut, I had this amazing experience…a sensation of being nothing and everything all at the same time. It was as if I had no physical form. I was a part of everything and everything was a part of me. I didn’t understand it but, I wanted more. It was difficult to describe it but I thought, that must be what it is like to be in God’s presence. At that time that is how I labelled it. I see now that it was a glimpse of the Natural State or possibly an Awakening.(?)

what it took to see it

A couple of years ago my husband Finoh LU (mentioned with his permission) and I started looking at Non-duality on the net, in books and listening to pod-casts. I thought, it could explain that 'experience' in 2004.
As I reacted to situations in my life I would pause and question. "If I'm a thought, how can a thought get upset?" and I would look to see who was upset. The more I looked at this occurring and the more I looked at what I wasn't, the more I was open to seeing what I am.
Recently, I heard an analogy by Paul Hedderman about a light going through a prism. When this light goes through the prism, it de-fragments and the colours are like our senses, hearing, seeing, tasting, touching, smelling and noticing thoughts. I got it. All my life, I thought I was the prism! I am the light! Not a real light but you get what I mean, don't you? The only way I can experience life in this apparent world is through the independent separate self (the prism). The light has no form/boundaries, it isn't matter.
Well that was it. My whole perception has shifted. I now see that I am no thing.

how it is now

I was typing out a lengthy reply to one of your questions a few days ago when a friend phoned. I stopped typing and I was present on the call and our weekly conversation seemed different. After we finished, I returned to typing my reply. I thought "I should save it".....I lost the whole lot of my response. Then I watched as the thoughts arose to blame her for calling and making me lose my post. Which is an old habit pattern: something goes wrong and the I looks for someone other than itself to blame. It was so funny. When seen it just fell away! Freedom! Hooray! Santa Claus isn't real and my thoughts aren't real either!
I am smiling as I re-read this. Thank you Elizabeth, I have really appreciated your love and support during this time. What I also appreciate about this Liberation Unleashed Site is that this is made available free of charge. This is a gift, that all beings should have access to. Thank you.
Much Love
Linda
XO

[Elizabeth]

Thank you, Linda, I can resonate with a lot of it...I think the older seekers know how easy this is to miss.
The fellow guides are touched :-)
So glad to have you here.
I'll send you the invites, and also invite you to consider being a guide. Understanding where others have been on the paths can be very useful!
Love, Elizabeth