Waking up is my greatest desire

[forgetmenot]

Hello Lee,

This is definitely the case here. There has been no major 'AHA' moment here where 'no self' was suddenly realized with startling clarity. It's been more like a dismantling process where now, everything that was previously taken for granted is being looked at again through a different lens - a clearer one.

Yes, it seems for many that it is a “dismantling” and that the shift in realisation is very subtle.

But the feeling of separate self is still being experienced, particularly in intense situations, such as meetings at work. The major difference is, the intensity is much easier to let go of once it's over - it's not being ruminated over and obsessed about with intense feelings as before.

What would it feel like not to be a person? What it 'feels like' right now, is what it 'feels like' to not be a person. But thought doesn't know that, hence the 'expectation' that the idea of a separate self should disappear in its entirety. There was never a separate self to start with…and yet the idea of a separate self appeared….why would that change now? Seeing through the illusion of “I” doesn’t mean you will lose the “I” and with it your whole identity. The “I” doesn’t exist, not even now as you are reading these lines.

So what would experience be life if if it was ever seen clearly that there is no person at the centre of it? You already know what it's like. It's exactly like *this*!

Looking in this way is such a fantastic tool and I will be forever grateful to you for gifting it to me so diligently, Kay :)

It is and has been my pleasure and joy to point for you to learn to look and see.

Okay, so just to make sure everything is clear, could you please answer the following questions in some detail please and answer what's true for you, rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer. And please provide examples where asked.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? Give an example from your own recent experiences to how things happens and how things work.
b) What are you responsible for?
c) Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?

Love, Kay

[Freakyboo]

Morning Kay :)

Okay, so just to make sure everything is clear, could you please answer the following questions in some detail please and answer what's true for you, rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer. And please provide examples where asked.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

No, there is no self to be found anywhere and there never was.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of separate self is the clinging to and identification with thoughts and sensations that the thoughts label, such a ‘fear’ or ‘happiness.’ We come to believe that we ‘are’ the thoughts and sensations – that there is an entity ‘inside’ the body that has the ability to control itself and its environment (including people around it) in some way. This self-image of the entity is projected ‘out’ into the world and believed in as separate from everything around it.
The illusion begins when we begin to believe the label that has been given to us – the name – as a separate “I.” The people around us call us this label constantly, and everyone/everything else around us is also given a label that we then believe “is” that person/thing. After that, we no longer see ourselves or anything around us as it truly is – it ‘becomes’ the label.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

To see that there is no “I” anywhere is freeing. The major difference from the start of this dialogue is that there is a great deal more relaxation and ability to ‘be here now.’ This is because sensations and thoughts that were believed to belong to an “I” are no longer believed as belonging to “I” – they just are. It is easier now to experience thoughts and sensations when they arise in AE without identifying with them – which used to cause a lot of “suffering.”

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

The dialogue (and subsequent meditation) around there being no dividing line between the experience and the experiencer; the seeing and the seen; the sensing and the sensed etc. This was major, as it was realized that no “I” is doing the “experiencing” – it is all just happening.

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? Give an example from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

All of the above are a result of the illusion of a separate “I” that believes it has control over itself and its environment. In AE, all is just happening – all ‘control,’ ‘intention,’ ‘free will’ etc are completely illusory. It is not known in AE what makes things happen – thoughts arise; the body moves and ‘does’ things; sensations appear.
This morning right after waking, busy thoughts were there, as well as a song in the background. The cat came in, meowing for her breakfast and a thought appeared about feeding the cat then meditating. So the body arose, fed the cat then sat down to meditate. While meditating, more thoughts were observed arising and passing – it was noticed that some had more power to get ‘lost’ in than others, but this was seen as the illusion of “I” arising and it would quickly pass away.

b) What are you responsible for?

Since there is no “I” there is no responsibility. All is just happening.

c) Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

Drinking too much coffee in the day – there used to be a feeling of guilt that “I” should stop drinking coffee because “I” am addicted. Now it is known that there is no “I,” choice or control so coffee drinking will stop when/if it stops. The same goes for ‘getting things done’ vs procrastinating – it is just happening and mental ‘noise’ makes no difference (though the “mental noise” is also just arising).
Hope that answered the question adequately.

6) Anything to add?

Just that you have been wonderful and there is much gratitude for all the effort you have put in to helping another deluded soul see that it actually isn’t there haha.
Thank you Kay – forever grateful.
Love Lee xox

[Freakyboo]

Just wanted to fix this:

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

The dialogue (and subsequent meditation) around there being no dividing line between the experience and the experiencer

to

the experience and the experienced.

[forgetmenot]

Hello Lee,

I have no further questions for you, however, I am going to get a couple of other guides to have a look at your thread to make sure that my pointing has been clear. If not then they may have other questions for you. If not further questions are needed to be asked of you, then you will be sent a PM via the forum to join a couple of LU groups on FB if you would like to :)

I will get back to you in a couple of days.

Love, Kay

[Freakyboo]

No problem.
Thanks muchly :)

Lee xox

[forgetmenot]

Hey Lee,

Congratulations and welcome through the Gateless Gate! There are no further questions for you. It has been a pleasure to explore the concept of the separate self with you, and point the way. Thank you for being so open and willing to LOOK!

Keep an eye out for an email notification from the forum about a PM (private message) inviting you to join our Aftercare groups on Facebook. If you don't receive the email notification, you can access your PM's from the forum. The PM also details other resources available to you. Your name will change from green to blue on the forum, which indicates that you have had the realisation of there being no separate self.

You can contact me at any time if you have any questions etc, via the forums PM system, or via Facebook if you decide to join our groups there.

Love, Kay