Need guidance

[santosh]

Hi. I am Santosh. I have been interested in this field of non-duality for some time primarily because most of my life I have been suffering due to a lack I find in myself to lead a good life. I have read some books, but I have not had any experiences.
I just need some guidance...

Thanks in advance.

Santosh.

[Olof]

Who are you?

[santosh]

I am a 39 year old man. I am from India. I am married.

[Olof]

Yes, it was 39 years ago your body was born. You live in a region of earth called India, and sometime in the past you underwent a ceremony that is called marriage.

Who are you right this moment?

[santosh]

If my life situation does not define me, then I guess I don't know who I am at present.

[Olof]

What is the me that your life situation doesn't define? Where is it? Be honest about what ideas rise up in the mind.

[Olof]

We can do this at skype if you prefer, will be quicker since we wont have to wait a few hours for each response.

[santosh]

What is the me that your life situation doesn't define? Where is it? Be honest about what ideas rise up in the mind.

I feel a 'me' cannot be defined without relating to people, objects in life. As regards, where does this me reside, I feel it is there deep inside me all the time. This me on one hand is fearing all the time, being overwhelmed with problems in life wanting to run away, at other times it has too much of ego that even if somebody does not acknowledge my smile it feels very angry. I dont know its a combination of fear, ego and endless desire.

As regards, skype frankly I am not much of a computer man, I have just started using internet. So I think we will stick to this at present.

[Olof]

The reason for your fear is because part of your ego consists of an internal projection of what the future should be like. So there is your memories and psychological map of the future. If this is threatened, a lot of fear arises because the ego is all about being in control and lives through time.

Yes, the self image is very brittle. Like you said, if somebody doesn't acknowledge your smile, you feel hurt (fear), which manifests as anger. Why, what is it you're trying to protect? This self image needs constant validation from other people that it exists, because it's only a network of thoughts linked to another thought of self.

Does this "you" really do anything at all, or is it only an idea? Thoughts pointing to a "me" that just doesn't exist, but is endemic to the way we use language where verbs has to go together with nouns?

Now, sit down and look at the thoughts arising in your head. Try to find thinker of those thoughts, then write here what you find.

[santosh]

Now, sit down and look at the thoughts arising in your head. Try to find thinker of those thoughts, then write here what you find.

1. In answer to your question, experientially, it seems there is one source or some core from which all these thoughts are arising.

2. I have been reading this non-duality subject from some time and I think I understand many things intellectually. Olof, I would like to ask you one question if you permit although it is not pertaining to the discussion we are having and which is going in correct direction. But, since I am a very impatient person the question is ' it is said in non-duality that everything happens in the now- there is no time- no past or future, then how come most of the astrological predictions about an individual's future is predicted fairly accurately. I don't know if I am jumping the line here, so you can answer if you wish to.

[Olof]

1. This is where you want to work. What is this core? Is that core you? What is the you that is separate from the world? Is it an idea about a you or does it consist of something real?

2. Where is the future now? Only in your head as a projection. Where is the past now? Only in your head as a memory.

As far as I'm concerned, astrological projections are massively inaccurate and are basically based on nothing. But, whatever, if you believe it's useful and I believe it's not - it doesn't matter - it's just another idea. This lie we're trying to uncover now loves intellectual debates about ideas about ideas about ideas. That'll take us nowhere.

Thinking point: If you are completely in the now, (focus attention on your hands if you have troubles with this), the mind made qualities of the "I" fall away, and there is only experience. Now, you might link this experience to an experiencer, the one who is seeing, hearing, feeling and smelling. But is this true, or is it just a faulty assumption you have held for decades? If it is true, then where and what is the experiencer?

[santosh]

1. This is where you want to work. What is this core? Is that core you? What is the you that is separate from the world? Is it an idea about a you or does it consist of something real?

This I is a separate person with a body and mind which sees and feels its body and can differentiate its thinking mind to be completely separate from the outside world. Which this I is completely convinced as a fact, because it is getting validated every moment by its interactions with the outside things and people. So this I is real, if this is what real means.

Thinking point: If you are completely in the now, (focus attention on your hands if you have troubles with this), the mind made qualities of the "I" fall away, and there is only experience. Now, you might link this experience to an experiencer, the one who is seeing, hearing, feeling and smelling. But is this true, or is it just a faulty assumption you have held for decades? If it is true, then where and what is the experiencer?

To me there is definitely an experiencer who is watching the hands, otherwise how it will be aware it is watching, something should be there to be aware of watching the hands. And that experiencer is me this body/mind.

[Olof]

This I is a separate person with a body and mind which sees and feels its body and can differentiate its thinking mind to be completely separate from the outside world. Which this I is completely convinced as a fact, because it is getting validated every moment by its interactions with the outside things and people. So this I is real, if this is what real means.

So, this I has a body and a mind. Therefore, it's separated from both the body and the mind. What you are saying here is that your I is something that owns the brain/body, and thus really is none of them. It probably feels like it is located behind your eyes and between your ears, because that is where most of the perception happens and the thoughts arise.

Everything is the world because nothing is separate. The only thing that can be separate is what the thoughts are pointing at. When you have a fantasy about a planet where there is grass and unicorns, and you're riding on one. That is a concept, a mental belief that is not part of reality apart from the belief itself. The "you" works in the same way...

...The thoughts themselves are real, produced by your brain. The body is there, as a part of reality. When these thoughts start to collect information like things that has been experienced by your being, things you have been conditioned to want or not want etc, that creates a concept of a you as an experiencer. But in reality, there is only experience.

You didn't come into reality, you grew out of it. Santosh as a separate experiencer is only something your thoughts are pointing at. They are pointing at memories, wants, not wants, labels - more thoughts. I think time is an important thing to look at, because the false self wanders between past and future in order to keep itself alive. When I say I think, the brain located in this body writing this produced an hypothesis about it here where I sit, as part of reality.

To me there is definitely an experiencer who is watching the hands, otherwise how it will be aware it is watching, something should be there to be aware of watching the hands. And that experiencer is me this body/mind.

When you watch your hands, there is experience of watching the hands by reality itself. Reality is a happening, what you do now is bring in memory. You watch the hands, and then thoughts come in, linking the experience to the memory of it. Can you feel it? Perhaps there's even a thought produced by the brain "I'm watching the hands". That thought is real and part of reality, but it points at the I which is an empty belief.

[santosh]

So, this I has a body and a mind. Therefore, it's separated from both the body and the mind. What you are saying here is that your I is something that owns the brain/body, and thus really is none of them. It probably feels like it is located behind your eyes and between your ears, because that is where most of the perception happens and the thoughts arise.

I am able to agree with this.

Everything is the world because nothing is separate. The only thing that can be separate is what the thoughts are pointing at. When you have a fantasy about a planet where there is grass and unicorns, and you're riding on one. That is a concept, a mental belief that is not part of reality apart from the belief itself. The "you" works in the same way...

What I am seeing is a 'I' which owns this body/mind but is definitely separate from all other things in the world. My experience shows that there is a separate me which is at a distance with say this computer and other people with whom I interact daily to carry on living. This does not seem to be a fantasy or concept of the thought but looks a sure fact.

...The thoughts themselves are real, produced by your brain. The body is there, as a part of reality. When these thoughts start to collect information like things that has been experienced by your being, things you have been conditioned to want or not want etc, that creates a concept of a you as an experiencer. But in reality, there is only experience.

Here again I agree to what you say about thoughts and experiences. But denying them both and saying there is only experience I am not able to understand.

You didn't come into reality, you grew out of it. Santosh as a separate experiencer is only something your thoughts are pointing at. They are pointing at memories, wants, not wants, labels - more thoughts. I think time is an important thing to look at, because the false self wanders between past and future in order to keep itself alive. When I say I think, the brain located in this body writing this produced an hypothesis about it here where I sit, as part of reality.

My experience shows that there is definitely a experiences i.e., me on one side and the entire world on the other side, how can that be an imagination of a thought.

When you watch your hands, there is experience of watching the hands by reality itself. Reality is a happening, what you do now is bring in memory. You watch the hands, and then thoughts come in, linking the experience to the memory of it. Can you feel it? Perhaps there's even a thought produced by the brain "I'm watching the hands". That thought is real and part of reality, but it points at the I which is an empty belief.

The thought that I am watching the hands and other thoughts arising shows that thought is real, but how does that make 'I' an empty belief. And what do you mean by reality.

[Olof]

What I am seeing is a 'I' which owns this body/mind but is definitely separate from all other things in the world. My experience shows that there is a separate me which is at a distance with say this computer and other people with whom I interact daily to carry on living. This does not seem to be a fantasy or concept of the thought but looks a sure fact.

What is the nature of this I you are refering to, where is it, and what does it consist of? You already said its neither the body nor the mind (brain).
Put some time into looking at this. This sentence is really all you need.

Here again I agree to what you say about thoughts and experiences. But denying them both and saying there is only experience I am not able to understand.

The mind made I can never understand that, because that would mean seeing it for what it truly is. You can't understand this intellectually with your mind made self, you have to see it. Intellect is actually another hindrance, just as seeing with the eyes happends, there has to be seeing how the mind made self is fictional.

My experience shows that there is definitely a experiences i.e., me on one side and the entire world on the other side, how can that be an imagination of a thought.

How can there be anything that is separate from the world in which all things are? Where could the separate you have come from if its not even part of this world?

The thought that I am watching the hands and other thoughts arising shows that thought is real, but how does that make 'I' an empty belief. And what do you mean by reality.

The thoughts themselves are real, what they point to or create, are not. If you have a thought about a blue tree, the thought itself is real, but the blue tree is not. When you have a thought about "you" watching the hand, the thought itself is real, but they have a faulty premise - that there is a separate you that is having that thought.

The I is an only an assumption, nothing else. It is a premise for which your actions, perceptions and thoughts are based. A premise doesn't have to be true.

Do you actually cause hearing? Or does the ears hear by themselves?
Do you pump your blood? Or does the pumping of the blood just happen on its own?
Do you make your eyes see, or do the eyes see by themselves?
When you walk, do you consciously decide how to move your legs, or do they just move?
When you breath, do you consciously cause that breathing or does it just happen?