GREETINGS (and REQUEST)

[sunisini]

Hi all.
My name is Martin, from Czech Republic. I dont know why - but since childhood i was reading all the books about "How the thing really are" and I was meditating for some years. And than later i have read and liked Nisargadatta Maharaj and Ramana Mahararishi etc. - it felt like freedom but honestly i never knew what they are actually REALLY speaking about...:)

And than some years later (now about 8 years ago) i accidentally found NEOadvaita stuff and thanks to John Wheeler i finally tasted what all the guys could have meant and I was deeply touched by simplicity of this. There is no-one who has to take care of its own image and everything just appears freely and disappears again - what a freedom!

Than after seeing this - i did stop meditating and started writing blog and translating articles of other nonduality guys like Sailor Bob, Isaac Shapiro, John Greven and many others. But I was (except one friend) kind of alone in that (there have been no LU/GG friends:)) - so after one year I just quit blogging&translating and more or less stop care about all this stuff, stop sharing it and I started to live "normal" life, which i still do now.

And this year i have met Richard Lang and thanks to his Headless approach I was again looking directly into what is here NOW and again felt this unique ligthness and freshness and that there is possibility of SEEing everything just as it is - without sticking too much to personal story.

And finally i came to this LU/GG forum and would like to see what is here and if I have to still break through something...

Thanks for showing me your approach.
(Until now i still never thought about myself as "liberated" so i came directly to this ONE on ONE session:)

[khora]

hello, martin.
my name is alex.

are you willing to undergo the process here, on the forums, or do you prefer a more private environment?

[sunisini]

Hi Alex, thanks for your message, yes we can start here.

[khora]

wonderful.
first of all, let's set up some rules, ok?
full committment is needed, with 100% honesty.
and each of us should show up at least once a day.
ok?

and please tell me what are your expectations for our interaction here.

[sunisini]

Yes i accept the rules, i will always anwer honestly, hopefully every day (as internet connection allows)

My expectations are to see more deeply into this "I" identification, to examine what does it mean. And thanks to this approach be able to show it to others, when needed.

Even if i see that everything happens on its own - there are still moments where there is attachment going on,...I still get easily caught up with what mind produces.

So we can start.

[khora]

mmmmm :)
great.
so let's jump directly to the main question here.

what is the "I" that you refer to in your post?
when you use the word "I", or "my", what do you mean?

[sunisini]

Ok Alex
I dont know really what that "I" is. I never saw any. It seems like there is an identification going on - with the thoughts, with the feelings. And even if I look and dont see anything behind thoughts and feeling - still than again later the identification is happening. Like some habit. (...So I can assume, that I secretely still think that I am someone in charge:)) - some "I")

And when I use word "I" or "my" - it shows that I speak again about something, which I still think belongs to me (more than to "others") - even it is clear that it is only thoughts appearing. Somehow some thoughts I dont care about, and about some I do care. Dont know why. Hopefully investigation with you will show more, why is that so.

Not sure if it was enough, but I have tried honestly to describe it...

[khora]

dear martin,
what you wrote to me is a theory. an intellectual construction. filled with assumptions.
as if you are trying to prove to yourself i doesn't exist, or can't be known.

here we just look. and describe what is.

do you see the difference?

just look at what's there. at what's happening.

you write:
"And when I use word "I" or "my" - it shows that I speak again about something, which I still think belongs to me".

let's have a little assignment, for tomorrow.

you wrote, here, "I speak", "I think".
look attentively and see if any "I" is needed for speaking or thinking to happen.

look closely at these activities.
is there any "I" who "does" them?
is "I think" an accurate description, or thoughts come by themselves, without any I to control them?
is "I speak" an accurate description?
is there any referent for the word "I" in these descriptions?

this is a practical activity of looking - don't try to remember or imagine, just observe.
and after that, write what you saw.

waiting :)

[sunisini]

Hi Alex
Of course it is assumptions, because I dont know how this proces of identification works...If i knew, I wouldnt come here...

But that what you are questioning - using words like "I speak", "I think" - this is only language - I would not try to avoid them, even when I see that there is no "I". And be sure, that when I use them, I dont really present myself as creator of words and thoughts, that is clear for me. So I am not doing thinking or speaking, in this I have no doubt.

So if i do only this as you call it "activity of looking" - than there is everything (including thoughts and speech) appearing from nothing and diseappearing again. This is seen clearly.

If I try to describe more precisely, where I still suddenly feel a little bit of this "I" - it is after the thoughts and speech appears (so not like creator of them, but more like some kind of judge, silently in the background...) And in this role as a judge, than I can of course become frustrating, when some unwanted thoughts or feelings appear:)))

Of course I can try to see the judge again as a thought (actually i am sure it is:) but it looks like it is more hidden, or that it is more beyond common thoughts, so it looks like it is not so easy to just look through it and dont care...

So again, looking forward for your guiding, I will be online today almost whole day.
Greetings to Moldova dear friend.

[khora]

hi, dear martin

of course it's not avoiding the word "I" - just seeing clearly what we mean by it, and not beeing misled :)

you wrote:

there is everything (including thoughts and speech) appearing from nothing and diseappearing again. This is seen clearly.

If I try to describe more precisely, where I still suddenly feel a little bit of this "I" - it is after the thoughts and speech appears (so not like creator of them, but more like some kind of judge, silently in the background...) And in this role as a judge, than I can of course become frustrating, when some unwanted thoughts or feelings appear:)))

yes, thoughts about "I" appear right after experience - feeling, thinking, etc.
but do thoughts really appear from "nothing"?
and regarding "unwanted" thoughts - do you control thoughts? can you know what will be your next thought? can you stop thinking at will? can you chose thoughts?

and if "I" is just another thought, can a thought control thoughts? can a thought think?
and can you see this "uneasiness" in looking through "I" is just another thought?


carry on with your day, doing what you usually do - typing at the computer, watching movies, eating, talking with friends, going out.
but look closely at what's happening.
is there any "I" involved in this activities, or just body, thoughts, feelings, which arise, change, disappear?
when does thinking about "I" arise, in the course of these activities?
do the thoughts about "I" refer to anything? or to several things? or to nothing? :)

and then tell me what was seen :)

love,
a

[sunisini]

hi alex
well, precisely said, we can say that thoughts just appear...(but still - before a particular thought appears - it is NOT here, it is NOT known - that is why i used expression that it is appearing from NOThing)

i dont control thoughts, i dont know what the next thought is, i cannot stop thinking at will, i cannot choose thoughts...so i agree that even "I" cannot control thoughts and it also cannot think...

AND well - it is quite relaxing moment to realise that there is no need to to care about "I", while it is also thought (with all the characteristics just described higher...) - so there is not much "uneasiness" appearing suddenly

so I keep looking closely at whats happening as you describe, while spending usual day ... and tomorrow I will answer the rest of the questions

thank you
warm greetings
martin

[khora]

dear martin,
yes, the best thing now is trust in the process - and keep being attentive and open to what happens.

and this looking is part of what happens, isn't it?

there can be nothing separate from what happens. no separate "I".
look to see if that's true.

and i'm waiting for your next post.

keep on with the good work :)

love,
a

[sunisini]

Hi Alex
Yes looking is part of what is just happenig.
...looking, body, thoughts, feelings - everything just arise, change, disappear..
I am not able to tell exactly when does thinking about "I" arise, in the course of these activities - sometimes it just arises:)))

If the thoughts about "I" refer to anything...I will try to anwer tomorrow.

Bye for now
Martin

[khora]

hi, martin
yes, there can be nothing separate from what's happening.

and part of the grip the illusion of "I" has on us is the fact we can't see clearly when and how it arises.

but it's not that hard to see :)
it may take 10 minutes :)

let's put it this way.
the body is real.
thoughts are real.
feelings are real.
the self, or I - isn't real.
there are thoughts about it, there are speculations and stories about it, but it can not possibly be found.
the "I" doesn't exist.
is that true?

[khora]

so, have you found out?
does the word / thought "I" refer to anything in reality?