Freedom from the I

[summiru2]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
There is no "I"

What are you looking for at LU?
It found in the full observation that is no such thing as 'I', but some how all the psychological world is circumventing around 'I'. Expecting freedom from I, fear which is equivalent to desire. Complete freedom from all the knowledge

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
If Truth is simple, how can come out of this false which is preventing from being truth. How to get rid of the assuming one self as so and so. If questioning every thought as to whom whom it comes but it is not resolving the thought, how to get freedom from thinking

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
In the inquiry it is understood that thoughts flow randomly, and they demand actions which create some effects, those effects intern turn into experiences which again create thoughts and actions and so on..

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[blackh]

Hi there,

I'm Steve from New Zealand, and I'd be happy to be your guide. What would you like me to call you?

Can you look to post at least once a day? (More often is fine.) We find that a certain intensity is helpful in the inquiry. If you're happy with that, and you're happy for me to be your guide, then we can proceed.

The aim of this inquiry is to see that "you" can't be found. So here's your first question:

What do you expect it's going to be like to see this? How will things be different? What will life look like?


Steve

[summiru2]

Thanks very much for the guidance. The name "Rami" can be used for the addressing hear on.



Definitely, posts can be seen every day at least once.

Earnestness or intensity to inquire is prime and must needed. Thanks for the guidance once again.

[What do you expect it's going to be like to see this? How will things be different? What will life look like?

To be like this means there is no one to accept or codemn.

[blackh]

Hi Rami!

To be like this means there is no one to accept or codemn.

That's basically a reasonable expectation but it's very likely that things will not be quite as you expect. The reason we ask this is that it's important to keep an open mind. If your idea of what is going to happen are too fixed, you can miss something important.

Please take a cup and put it in front of you, and look at it with sight only. Now, tell me:

1. What do you know about it from the evidence of the senses?
2. What is "added" by thought?

Steve

[summiru2]

In the instant eyes started focusing many things are there, then some how cup is recognized. Then the curvature of the brim observed, then the shadow outside the cup is observed and inside it as well. Then the color is observed. Then the height of cup is observed then the base of the cup is observed. Then where it is placed
that is surfacee of the desk, and then focus is shifted to the surface of desk. It is going on.

[blackh]

Hi Rami,

You mentioned the following things:

• curvature of the brim
• the shadow outside the cup
• the shadow inside the cup
• the color
• height
• base
• where it is placed

I just need you to be a bit clearer about this. For each of those things, did your senses tell you, or did your mind tell you, or was it a combination of the two?


Steve

[summiru2]

First sensed with the eyes then whatever sensed through is identified with the relevant words. Then moving attention to other portion and then identified with the words. All this is with respect to the cup.

[blackh]

Hi Rami,

First sensed with the eyes then whatever sensed through is identified with the relevant words. Then moving attention to other portion and then identified with the words. All this is with respect to the cup.

OK, great. So there is a sensing with the eyes, then the mind adds some words. Perception is an important aspect of this.

Now please tell me how "I" - your self - is experienced. What can it do? Does it have a location in the body? Does it have a size, shape or colour?


Steve

[summiru2]

Hello Steve,

Like the descriptions of the cup, "I" is an other word. "my self", nothing but the word "I". There is body which people call as "Rami", which follows the set of patterns from the waking to sleep. Various thoughts come in between followed by some activities or an thought. All this set is represented by the word "I", which is equivalent to the thought, so the place of the "I" is same as the thought. How to trace this for it's place?

[blackh]

Hi Rami,

All this set is represented by the word "I", which is equivalent to the thought, so the place of the "I" is same as the thought. How to trace this for it's place?

This is good! I am not saying that "I" has a place. But, the point is this: In your introduction, you said,

It found in the full observation that is no such thing as 'I', but some how all the psychological world is circumventing around 'I'.

This is the 'I' I want you to tell me about. Right now I am not asking what is really there. I am asking what the problem is. Please go into detail about this (imaginary) 'I' and how it is affecting you (so to speak).


Steve

[summiru2]

Hi Steve,
During waking state the knowledge is needed very least. But most of the times knowledge intervene which is annoying. All the mental activities are very conflicting, there is lot of suffering mentally, why should mind worry about distant future which doesn't help to course of the future any how? All this happens, with the eruption "I" and other associated thoughts which are nothing but the particular knowledge coming into mentally active state. If there is no "I" and the thoughts associated it then will there be unnecessary suffering and fear? That's why, wanted to end the so called "I" and the knowledge.

[blackh]

Hi Rami,

Great answer - thanks!

If there is no "I" and the thoughts associated it then will there be unnecessary suffering and fear?

Yes and no. Seeing that "I" is not real doesn't stop suffering by itself, but it removes the major obstacle to that. At the end of our conversation, the aim is that you will see this reality clearly and deeply. But, it's not likely that all suffering and fear will be gone at this point. But, if you keep going in the same way, then this kind of change will happen.

So let's work on letting you see what you need to see now. Intellectual knowledge is not enough by itself. You have to see it.

Your next question:

Where do thoughts come from?
Please look at thoughts coming up, and give an answer only from what you SEE happening.


Steve

[summiru2]

Hi Steve,

Intellectual knowledge is not enough by itself. You have to see it.[\quote]
Here having intellectual understanding is as good as not having it

Where do thoughts come from?
Please look at thoughts coming up, and give an answer only from what you SEE happening.
[\quote]
In the knowingness

[blackh]

Hi Rami,

I'm not quite sure what you mean.

Here having intellectual understanding is as good as not having it.

Are you saying that having an intellectual understanding is not doing you any good, or are you saying something else? Please say more.

In the knowingness

I don't understand this at all. Can you say more? The question was, "Where do thoughts come from?"


Steve

[summiru2]

Yes, intellectual understanding is not real understanding. So intellectual understanding is having least value or no value.

For the second question, that is the origin of thoughts is "one's knowingness". Knowingness means ones ability to perceiving the things, recognizing experiences etc.