No self

[Monkfield]

Whenever you are in any doubt, try to remember what you have seen ...

• WHATEVER is happening is happening all by itself
• None of it is being done BY a "you"
• It is not happening TO a "you"

[Yossarian]

As always, no thing is found that can be called “I.” I get the sense it is necessary to keep coming back to this until the various beliefs and philosophical notions fade.

[Monkfield]

Did it take time for the belief in Santa to fade?

Is there a difference between a belief and a philosophical notion?

Could it be that the experience of thinking, whatever the topic, and whether or not some of the content is labelled as a belief, is simply what's happening, not being done by a "you", and not being experienced by a "you", just a happening?

Even an expectation or a hope or a thought about the necessity to keep coming back until they fade, is not being done by a "you", and is not being experienced by a "you". Isn't it all just the shape that the universe is currently taking?

Experience is happening, and a subtle desire for that experience to be different is happening, but even that is itself simply experience happening. The "shift" is in the seeing that it is not happening to anyone, and then there is nobody with a vested interest in experience being any different from how it already actually is.

The question is, quite literally, "who" cares whether or not beliefs and philosophical notions fade? ;)

[Yossarian]

The answer, of course, is no one.

[Monkfield]

How are you feeling about the inquiry process we have been through? You seem to me to have seen for yourself everything that the inquiries point to so I am wondering if you would like to see the so-called "final questions" or if you feel that there is still something we need to address?

[Yossarian]

No, I think we move to those final questions you mentioned.

[Monkfield]

Great, I think so too ;)

Here are the questions:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

[Yossarian]

Working on these!

[Monkfield]

Cool! Feel free to dialogue if anything comes up for you.

[Yossarian]

Great, I think so too ;)

Here are the questions:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
No.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
It's the belief that there is an actual "thing" or discrete entity that thinks thoughts, "acts" actions, feels feelings, and directs things, and we live as though this thing is somewhere behind the eyes.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
Mostly it doesn't feel all that different, but there is a reduction in the worry about achieving some sort of massive enlightenment insight (you're well aware of all the spiritual concepts baggage).

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
I got tired of decades of spiritual disciplines.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
"Free will" vs. determinism seems to be a false dichotomy now. There would have to be an entity that wills, and we know there isn't one! All we can say is that decisions appear in consciousness. Part of the self illusion is the notion that there is something there that wills, intends, and decides, but all we have in direct experience are decisions and intentions! There's no perceptible thing doing this. I need to ponder further the question of responsibility.

6) Anything to add?

[Monkfield]

Thanks for these.

Regarding question 5 ... please can you provide some examples from your own experience of decisions, intentions etc. that illustrate how it all works.

Is the question of responsibility different? If there is no "thing" deciding or intending and yet deciding and intending still appear to happen, can the same not be said about responsibility? i.e. There is no "thing" that is ultimately responsible for anything and yet attributing responsibility still appears to happen.

Please post your ponderings about responsibility here :)

[Yossarian]

The experience of “decision-making” goes like this, at least it seems to me: Thoughts and feelings arise about the decision to be made. The train of thoughts is somewhat coherent (which we know adds to the illusion of being an “I” that thinks). A decision is made, and that decision appears in consciousness. I believe that’s all that can truly be said – we become aware of a decision, which simply arises like any other thought. The “decision making” is not actually something we are conscious of, only the decision made. There must be things happening in the brain that do not reach the level of consciousness, but however it works, it's not within consciousness.


More on responsibility in a subsequent post.

[Monkfield]

Good stuff. Can you give an example of an actual decision that "you" appear to have made? e.g. how did you decide what to wear when you got dressed today?

Looking forward to hearing about responsibility.

[Yossarian]

A little backed up on the question of responsibility, I'll admit. Thorny. As for an example of a decision, here's a minor one from today. As I got dressed in my hotel room to go onsite with my client, I discovered that my belt does not fit into the belt loops of my new dress pants (it's too wide). So after a bit of futile wrestling, the decision was to go without a belt. A couple of thoughts appeared about how it might look, whether my pants would stay put; those simply appeared. And then the decision appeared. That is all that can be said from direct experience. Any business about "I" doing any of it would be an after-the-fact conceptual add-on.

[Monkfield]

So the question about responsibility is along the lines of ... when it comes to things like decisions, intentions, free will, choice and control ... what, if anything, are you actually responsible for?

We are not talking about what you may or may not be conventionally held "accountable" for in terms of consequences of actions, it is a more about the "in charge" meaning of the word responsible - are you in charge of anything? are you the source of anything? do you actually make anything happen?

Let's explore this thorny question together :)