no next

[Anastacia42]

Hi Steven,

For the past 4 or 5 days, there is been a feeling of chest heaviness.

This is usually an indication that we are lying to ourselves, i.e. not in Direct Experience, that what we are thinking is not "true," which is less precise than "not DE." You are noticing that it is stressful to be making up *and believing!* stories that are not DE.

Forgot to mention when I read your last post, there was a feeling of sadness and fear as well.

Please remember that those are INTERPRETATIONS or CONTENT, not Direct Experience. I am sympathetic *and* the way out is to look for Direct Experience!

I know somehow that this is related to what we are doing but I hesitate to theorize about why this is happening.

Stop theorizing!!! It is hopeless. You have been theorizing for most of the years you have been alive. Where has it gotten you?

It just so happens that the way to mitigate or relieve a panic attack is almost exactly what we teach here - LOOK! LOOK at DIRECT EXPERIENCE ONLY.

1. Spend a few minutes looking around at what you can see -just color.
2. Spend a few minutes listening to what you can hear - just sound.
3. Spend a few minutes sensing what your body senses - just touch (butt on chair, etc.)
4. Spend a few minutes smelling - just smell.
5. Spend a few minutes tasting - just taste.

This causes you to use a part of the brain that is different from the part that does "fear," which is only a label and not DE.

They say we have to die before we die. It's like the Gateless Gate - it only seems like a Gate until we SEE it, then we see there is no Gate and never was. It only *seems* that something dies, but this "I" never was. This is a relief *and* there may be some sense of tears of relief or you can label it grief, but in Direct Experience, it is only tears happening.

Keep re-reading your thread. DO each exercise. LOOK for what is pointed to.

Keep posting. Stay in touch. Don't give up. LOOK!

Much love,

[Steven257]

Thanks for getting back to me quickly!

[Anastacia42]

Ha!

Back to whom? ;)

Love,

[Steven257]

Stacy,

Back to whom? ;)

Back to nobody.

Switches back and forth but mostly still seeing the "old woman" and not the "young woman".

Really starting to realize how much I was not actually looking but just briefly was looking and then quickly analyzing. Better able to see that there is no "I" doing this but the process still needs to progress with your help for a bit, if you don't mind. Hope not.

Going out of the country for a conference tomorrow morning until Thursday. Would like to read the posts and also will start the book "Liberation Unleashed: A guide..."

OK if I do not post until Friday next week?

Steven

[Anastacia42]

Sure, that's fine.

At some point I want to describe to me what you do when you look.

Have a good trip.

[Anastacia42]

How is it going?

Have you reread your thread?

Please tell me what you do when you LOOK?

Thank you & much love,

[Steven257]

Hi Stacy,

I did reread the thread.

This is how I looked and then I will describe how I look now.

Used to look briefly then analyze almost immediately.

Now, almost always, when I LOOK, there is a passivity to it. Just watching sights, sounds, smells, tastes, and sensations- all just come and go. The major shift has been that the thoughts are now in the same category as everything else. They just come and go too, with no thinker.

When there is a feeling of "self", there is just a watching of the "I" thoughts and then a search for a separate entity that controls it all. Never find it and know that I never will.

The question that comes up now is: is it that there is still some belief that there is still an "I" as there is no major change? However, there is a change, but subtle.

Steven

[Anastacia42]

Hi Steven,

Go back to your thread and count how many times I've told you that it may be subtle. And add this one to it. :-)

What major change do you expect?

Much love,

[Steven257]

I do remember that you have said this multiple times. It can be subtle.

Just read the daily quote from Rupert Spira:

"To see what the separate self is, is to see that it isn’t."

Doesn't get more concise than that.

I am better able to accept the paradox that you have described and i am more at peace with the process of thinking. Not fighting it. Thinking is good! That means that this body is still alive! The thoughts are becoming less sticky.

What now?

[Anastacia42]

Good evening,

I did ask what expectations you have about how it is to realize that there is no self and never has been. Do you have an answer for that?

There are no special signs in the "person" after the realization of no self has happened, because there has never been a separate self that can realize it!

What it "feels like" right now, IS what it "feels like" to not be a person. But thought doesn't know that, hence the "expectation" that is should somehow feel different or look different or be different!

If there really is no inherent self, how would the experience be different from what already is?

LOOK and see if you can find someone/something that creates the illusion of a self. Can you?

Is something (a self) "there" in the background, creating the illusion, or is the experience simply that the illusion appears? Look at this. Reason may suggest that something must create an illusion.

Surely the interesting question is, do "you" "create it" or does it appear entirely unaided?

I realize this probably feels repetitious, but these are some fine points that I'd like to see clear in your answers.

Much love,

[Anastacia42]

Hi Steven!

Still with us?

Have a good holiday. I'll be around.

Stacy

[Steven257]

With you more than ever, Stacy. I was doing some yoga when you posted and was planning on replying after.

I did ask what expectations you have about how it is to realize that there is no self and never has been. Do you have an answer for that?

Still have an expectation that there will be less stickiness to the thoughts and a feeling of greater freedom and happiness.

If there really is no inherent self, how would the experience be different from what already is?

It seems that with other people's experiences in the Liberation Unleashed forum/books, there is typically a less subtle shift in perspective (compared to Steven), but I may be wrong.

LOOK and see if you can find someone/something that creates the illusion of a self. Can you?

Nothing creates it. There is just the story with thoughts arising. The thoughts relate to a specific body and history but there is no separate entity. A tree has a specific place in the earth and history, but there is no separate tree "soul" that drives the photosynthesis and other life processes. There is no part of "Steven" that is a separate from anything. No controller despite what thought states.

Is something (a self) "there" in the background, creating the illusion, or is the experience simply that the illusion appears? Look at this. Reason may suggest that something must create an illusion.

It really does not make sense anymore for there to be anything separate in the background. Where the heck would it be? There are energies that are shaped by the past with ongoing processes but nothing separate. Just happening.

Surely the interesting question is, do "you" "create it" or does it appear entirely unaided?

There is no "me" to create it! Shaking "my" head. It just happened like everything else. Sometimes, I feel so stupid and this seems so obvious.

Taking a bit more time in between posts. Really desiring a deep understanding, not just intellectually. Seeing that there is no one to get it.

Love as always and definitely glad to be here with you,

Steven

[Anastacia42]

Good evening!

Thank you for letting me know you are taking more time between replies. Try to keep to at least every other day, to keep momentum up.

I did ask what expectations you have about how it is to realize that there is no self and never has been. Do you have an answer for that?
Still have an expectation that there will be less stickiness to the thoughts and a feeling of greater freedom and happiness.

That is great! You are aware of those expectations, and expectations are nothing more than appearing thoughts that are labelled as "expectations." You know this.

Is something (a self) "there" in the background, creating the illusion, or is the experience simply that the illusion appears? Look at this. Reason may suggest that something must create an illusion.
It really does not make sense anymore for there to be anything separate in the background. Where the heck would it be? There are energies that are shaped by the past with ongoing processes but nothing separate. Just happening.

Okay, something new - a different angle. Let’s look at the idea of time and then we will look at the idea of memory.

There is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time, or an event that is moving forward on this linear time, coming from the past and advancing to the future. Right?

But is there an experience that the ’now’ is moving along the line of time?

Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?

Any actual experience of one event following another?

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

How long does the ‘now’ last?

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

Please answer each question that is highlighted in blue above.

Surely the interesting question is, do "you" "create it" or does it appear entirely unaided?

There is no "me" to create it! Shaking "my" head. It just happened like everything else. Sometimes, I feel so stupid and this seems so obvious.

You are doing great, Steven! As I have said previously…this yo-yoing happens to everyone.

Taking a bit more time in between posts. Really desiring a deep understanding, not just intellectually. Seeing that there is no one to get it.

You already have it! It is only the expectations that are hindering you. If you put them aside and just look now to see if you can find a separate self, what would your answer be? That is how simple it is. Just like your Rupert Spira quote a couple of days ago.

Thought is often made out to be the enemy, in the search for truth, but it’s not. If you don't notice the difference between what thought says about reality, and how you find reality to actually be, you won't notice your innate peace and freedom. In order to notice that difference, the very first thing you have to notice is whether, or not, you are the author of thoughts. Or whether ANYTHING is authoring thoughts.

The second thing you need to notice is whether thought is aware of what it says, or not. Once you are sure of the answers to those questions, the differences between what thought says about reality, and how you find reality to ACTUALLY be, will reveal themselves.

So. Good stuff. Looking forward to your replies, as always.

Love,

[Steven257]

Stacy-

Good evening.

But is there an experience that the ’now’ is moving along the line of time?

I read this post soon after you submitted it and reading again now as well as writing. There seems to be a paradox again. There is a memory of an event of reading this. Totally understand that there is just a thought of that 'now'. There is definitely not any movement of this 'now' along the line of time. There is just this 'now'.

Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?

Not at all. Thought comes in and there are thoughts of "past" and "future" but thoughts always happen as a singularity in each moment. No progression or movement. Nothing giving way to the next. That would imply time but we never experience that in DE. This topic is "no next". That just appeared and maybe it was because of the truth that there really is just 'now'.

Any actual experience of one event following another?

No actual experience of that.

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

No movement/velocity as there is no denominator of time.

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

No.

How long does the ‘now’ last?

not in time at all

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

it does not start or end as it is not in time.

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

seeing how simple these answers are becoming. Just 'now'! Thoughts arise and if content is ignored, just thoughts in the' now'. DE always in the 'now'.

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

Just thoughts 'now' with content that sometimes refers to a 'past'.

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

This is what was discovered a few questions back. Just thoughts about 'time'.

You already have it! It is only the expectations that are hindering you. If you put them aside and just look now to see if you can find a separate self, what would your answer be? That is how simple it is. Just like your Rupert Spira quote a couple of days ago.

... some tears, shaking my head. thought came up "So obvious. Why do I forget this truth again and again?!
Lots of stories due to things at work today. Seeing that the stories just arise and thoughts come and go, always in the 'now'. Seems like the identification with this story line is creating suffering...still...but is there a separate self? No. Cannot find anything separate.

Thought is often made out to be the enemy, in the search for truth, but it’s not. If you don't notice the difference between what thought says about reality, and how you find reality to actually be, you won't notice your innate peace and freedom. In order to notice that difference, the very first thing you have to notice is whether, or not, you are the author of thoughts. Or whether ANYTHING is authoring thoughts.

The second thing you need to notice is whether thought is aware of what it says, or not. Once you are sure of the answers to those questions, the differences between what thought says about reality, and how you find reality to ACTUALLY be, will reveal themselves.

Just copied the above. That seems very important right now.

Love,

Steven

[Steven257]

The focusing on the 'now' is so much less burdensome. Confusing content of thought with reality is tiring. Was in the car and there was a feeling of relief and freedom in just experiencing the 'now'. So much simpler. A loving friend told me yesterday that I can be "over-analytical". Ok, that is probably obvious to you right now. I complicate things way too much! You are on to something with the last post.

There really is no feeling of "self" when focused on the 'now'. Granted, this is nonduality 101, Buddhism 101, etc. but understanding it more directly now. Anyway, just wanted to write that.