Awakening

[Sarah7]

Morning Amy
Lovely. Onto hearing!

Notice the sounds you’re hearing, like the chirping of the birds. Notice the habitual thought, "Those are birds." Notice the habitual thought, "I hear that." Now just pay attention to how hearing happens. Take your time with it. Can you find a dividing line between the sound and the hearing of the sound? Are you doing the hearing? Or is it truer to say that hearing is just happening? Then look to see whether there's a dividing line between the hearing of it and a separate entity, a "you," doing the hearing. In other words, what does it mean when you say, "I'm hearing that sound"? Are there really three entities there in direct experience, an "I" and hearing and a sound? Or is there just one experience of hearing, with no one as a hearer.
Look closely. Try it with various sounds. See if you can find a way to separate the sound from the hearing and the hearing from the hearer. Where does one start and the other end? So what do you see about the thought, "I'm hearing that sound"? Is it an accurate description of direct experience? What is a noise? Is that a label also? Is the sound there? Can you really know?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Amynff]

Can you find a dividing line between the sound and the hearing of the sound? Are you doing the hearing?

No, I cannot.

Or is it truer to say that hearing is just happening?

Yes, in my experience listening just happens.

In other words, what does it mean when you say, "I'm hearing that sound"? Are there really three entities there in direct experience, an "I" and hearing and a sound? Or is there just one experience of hearing, with no one as a hearer.

I experience just on experience of hearing.

See if you can find a way to separate the sound from the hearing and the hearing from the hearer. Where does one start and the other end?

I cannot find any separation. I find no line where one starts and the other ends.

So what do you see about the thought, "I'm hearing that sound"? Is it an accurate description of direct experience?

There is no one doing the hearing, just sound in experience of awareness. No, it is not really an accurate description of my direct experience, but just the language we use.

What is a noise? Is that a label also? Is the sound there? Can you really know?

Noise is noise, yes, it is a label. yes, the sound comes and goes like thoughts. No, I cannot really know.

[Sarah7]

Morning Amy
So, onto to touch.

Touch the table (or any object) with your eyes shut (or open). Pretend like it’s the first time you have ever touched a table. Go straight to the raw sensation/perception. What is your direct experience of this ‘table’? List your direct experience. Is it senses again? Is it thoughts again? Look very closely. Which comes first the senses or the thoughts? Does the sensation of touching come with a shape, density, weight, size, colour, age or function? Does this sensation come with a ‘not me’ label or ‘other’ label? Is it one sensation/perception or two? Look at how thoughts try and take over, try and explain, try and prove. Notice your memories or references with which you compare the experience.
Sit with these sensations. Look at them. Look at the labelling e.g. table, hand. Look at the thoughts or story that attach at the end of this list if any. What is your direct experience of these words? Do they exist outside of thought? Are they sensations again? Are they just thoughts again? Look very closely. Which comes first the sensation or the thoughts? Don’t pay attention to the thoughts just look at what they do, when they come in.
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Amynff]

Can you find a dividing line between the sound and the hearing of the sound? Are you doing the hearing? Or is it truer to say that hearing is just happening? Then look to see whether there's a dividing line between the hearing of it and a separate entity, a "you," doing the hearing. In other words, what does it mean when you say, "I'm hearing that sound"? Are there really three entities there in direct experience, an "I" and hearing and a sound? Or is there just one experience of hearing, with no one as a hearer.

No dividing line, no ONE here hearing, just hearing. Hearing is just happening. "I'm hearing that sound", is just thought or language defining/labeling. There is just hearing, no hearer.

Where does one start and the other end? So what do you see about the thought, "I'm hearing that sound"? Is it an accurate description of direct experience? What is a noise? Is that a label also? Is the sound there? Can you really know?

I cannot find where it starts and where it ends. "I'm hearing that sound", is not an accurate description of direct experience. Noise is most likely vibration hitting the eardrum and that's it and no I cannot really know if the sound is there. Sounds like thoughts arise and pass away in the wide open space of this empty awareness.

thank you,

amy

[Sarah7]

Hi Amy.
Did you get a chance to look into the touch exercise?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Amynff]

Good Morning Sarah,

What is your direct experience of this ‘table’?

My direct experience is it is a sensation and the mind starts to label, cold surface, feels like wood, rough, smooth...

Is it senses again?

yes

Is it thoughts again?

yes

Which comes first the senses or the thoughts?

Direct experience is senses first with thoughts creating a commentary about it.

Does the sensation of touching come with a shape, density, weight, size, colour, age or function?

My direct experience is no it does not come with all these things, but my mind is conditioned to start adding all these things.

Does this sensation come with a ‘not me’ label or ‘other’ label?

no, in my direct experience it is just a sensation of touch.

Is it one sensation/perception or two?

just one

What is your direct experience of these words?

My direct experience seems the same as the touch, just touch. The words, just words.

Do they exist outside of thought?

no

Are they sensations again? Are they just thoughts again? Look very closely. Which comes first the sensation or the thoughts?

just thoughts again. my experience is the sensation comes first, then a flood of thoughts about the sensation.

Thank you,

Amy

[Sarah7]

Hey Amy
So have some fun with taste and smell, looking for any actual experience of seperation.

Are you in the body looking out, of the body as a whole or in certain part of the body? If all – then will you exist if you cut your hair, lose an arm or lose weight? If in a part – which part? Is there a time when the self is not experienced? Did the self chose to not experience itself? Did it chose to come back at some point? Or did that just happen? When you had no sense of self – did you disappear?
What is our direct experience of the body? Is it the same as the idea we have about it? Do you see the whole or fragments that are collected together from memory to make a whole? And does that thought give us the impression of solidity, permanence and reality? Are the fragments ever seen without an aspect of the world – e.g. I am writing this on the couch and I see my hands writing surrounded by cushions etc? As with the seeing exercise the total visual field – one seamless whole, made only of seeing. Is it thought that artificially divides? Is it as the TV screen, one seamless whole? From the point of view of the object – all items are separate, but what about from the point of view of the screen? Is anything separate or independent or is there just the screen?
Hugs Sarah xx

[Amynff]

Hi Sarah,

Are you in the body looking out, of the body as a whole or in certain part of the body?

It is a very convincing sensation that awareness is using the eyes to see, the other senses to experience experience. I do see awareness as the I am, and I do see everything in Awareness is made of Awareness, including the body parts.

If all – then will you exist if you cut your hair, lose an arm or lose weight?

The body may die in certain situations, but what is doing the seeing/Awareness remains.

Is there a time when the self is not experienced?

The self as in Awareness, no.

Did the self chose to not experience itself?

The self, as in the mental construct Amy, did not choose. Awareness just is, is always there, 'it was never born and never dies.'

Did it chose to come back at some point? Or did that just happen?

I don't know. Feels like a dance of just happening. Things are just rolling along in a boundless empty space which is inherently peaceful.

When you had no sense of self – did you disappear?

No

What is our direct experience of the body?

It is in Awareness just like the table, chair, computer. No separation.

Is it the same as the idea we have about it?

No

Do you see the whole or fragments that are collected together from memory to make a whole?

I can see the whole and when I break down apparent things into parts there is no thing there, it is all empty.

And does that thought give us the impression of solidity, permanence and reality?

Not any longer.

Are the fragments ever seen without an aspect of the world – e.g. I am writing this on the couch and I see my hands writing surrounded by cushions etc? As with the seeing exercise the total visual field – one seamless whole, made only of seeing. Is it thought that artificially divides?

Thoughts divide until they are seen as empty as well.

Is it as the TV screen, one seamless whole? From the point of view of the object – all items are separate, but what about from the point of view of the screen? Is anything separate or independent or is there just the screen?

Just the screen. Everything that is on the screen is in the screen and the screen is a great metaphor for the peace of knowing the knower. It everything is in the screen and the screen is unaffected by the apparent experiences unfolding within it.

Thank you again Sarah,

Amy

[Sarah7]

Hey Amy
This is from your first post.

What are you looking for at LU?

I am looking to fully awaken to the truth of the no self. This I thought is still very setting for me and I still experience myself as a separate person. I want to see clearly/recognize what I’m seeing. The simple experience of not getting frustrated with the thoughts I think by seeing things as they had a sense of deep peace.

Can I presume here you meant the I thought was still very unsettling rather than settling? If so is this still the case? If so what is unsettled?
Is there still a feeling of separation?
What’s happening with the frustration with thoughts? Anything?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Amynff]

Can I presume here you meant the I thought was still very unsettling rather than settling? If so is this still the case? If so what is unsettled?

Yes, unsettled. That was poorly written, my apologies. Not the case any longer.

Is there still a feeling of separation?

No.

What’s happening with the frustration with thoughts? Anything?

Nothing, same thoughts, old habits of thinking just arising and passing away.

Thank you very much Sarah!

[Sarah7]

So then Amy, any more questions from you? Anything you want to look at? Anything at all?

Has the illusion of self been clearly seen through? Any doubt?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Amynff]

So then Amy, any more questions from you?

no, not at the moment, but thank you Sarah.

Anything you want to look at? Anything at all?

Nothing for now.

Has the illusion of self been clearly seen through? Any doubt?

Clear seeing, no doubts.

Thank you again Sarah!

[Sarah7]

Haven’t finished with you quite yet Amy! Lol

So - just to sum up can you answer these in as much detail as you feel is necessary. Theres no rush! :)

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.
How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
Anything to add?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Amynff]

[

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?

No

Was there ever?

No, not ever.

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.

The illusion of a separate self is a collection of thoughts that I identified as a me inside this body. It also is the identifying with the body as me. I am my thoughts and my body is the illusion that creates the belief in a separate self. The separate self is like a mirage in the desert, once you arrive at the mirage it disappears. It started as early as I can remember(4ish probably). I learned my name, the body I looked down at, and the image in the mirror was me.

Describe it fully as you see it now.

I am conscious awareness, the knower of experience, the pure expansive empty space of awareness that everything appears in. Before, as a separate self, things appeared as matter out there. Now everything appears as consciousness in the open aware space of concsiousness.

How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels peaceful. I do not make an issue of anything. I saw for the first time in 2007 doing Douglas Hardings pointing exercise, it was so simple I was a bit disappointed. I had many outlandish ideas about how like would change when I became a seer. There has been a disentanglement from old habits of mind and expectations about seeing that this dialogue has cleared up.

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

There was not an epic moment at any point. There has been curiosity for a long time into Shunyata/Emptiness and it evolved until i simply did the pointing exercise and saw the clear empty space i am.

Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

No one deciding, no one here to intend or choose. No one here to control events in my life. Although, the old habit of believing in a separate self was still at play on many levels before this dialogue, I now live a life of clarity. Subject/Object distinction has dissolved and and all is one and empty.

Anything to add?

Everything appears in consciousness as consciousness it no longer appears as matter out there and me in here. There is no separation.

Thank you very much,

Amy

[Sarah7]

Hey Amy

I am conscious awareness, the knower of experience,

Are you separating the knower and the known (experience)? Are they different?
Can you describe "awareness" without using the word "awareness" or "consciousness"?
Can you give another name for what you name "awareness.
Hugs Sarah xxx