Falling into

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Cloudberry
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Re: Falling into

Postby Cloudberry » Sun May 27, 2018 1:46 pm

A bit of a ramble this morning that all just fell out through the fingertips
What do you mean by that?
Ahh, it felt like a lot of words had been written. Sometimes a short direct answer is written. Other times it turns into an essay. By falling out through the fingertips is was referring to how there was no "I" having the thoughts, they were just arising and the fingers typing. It's quite fun to see thoughts just arising, action following, no "I" doing it. There is a desire to keep looking into this.
There is less formal meditation taking place and more informal just sitting and looking happening. Sitting in a chair, life happening, breath moving, part of it. Perfect

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Matthew
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Re: Falling into

Postby Matthew » Sun May 27, 2018 1:55 pm

Okay great :-)

Yes, it gets overlooked. It is too obvious. Since it is closer to you than you are to yourself.

I'd like to pose the final questions. Is that okay with you?
First there is a mountain,
Then there is no mountain,
Then there is.

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Cloudberry
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Re: Falling into

Postby Cloudberry » Sun May 27, 2018 1:58 pm

Yes please :-)

Ready and waiting

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Matthew
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Location: Your dreams

Re: Falling into

Postby Matthew » Sun May 27, 2018 2:11 pm

Here they come!


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?


Looking forward to your answers!
First there is a mountain,
Then there is no mountain,
Then there is.

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Cloudberry
Posts: 209
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:38 am

Re: Falling into

Postby Cloudberry » Sun May 27, 2018 7:58 pm

Thanks
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
There is NO separate entity 'self', 'me', "I", at all, anywhere, in any way shape or form. It has been looked for extensively and is not there,
Was there ever?
NO, there never was.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
The illusion of separate self is just that, an illusion. A thought created illusion of there being a separate person, or being, "I" "ME" "Self" living in/as this body, in here, living a linear life from birth to death with everything else out there. A life being lived by the "me" with everything happening to the "me" and "me" making all the decisions. This starts as early as can be remembered from a very young age. I, Robert am in here and everything happens to me. It's a complete take-over, like some parasitic program takes control or at least appears to. This separate self is constantly narrating, judging, comparing and analysing experience and tying it back to it's story that is kept alive about itself. Scanning past experiences, predicting and anticipating future. spewing out Propaganda. It latches on to arising thoughts and claims them. It claims the role of the doer and creates the illusion that there is a self doing all this. It's very crafty, clever and successful. Yet, it doesn't exist and never has. It's just a thought based illusion. Even now these words are being written and a story about a one on a LU journey unfolding. Just thoughts popping up and arising in this space of awareness, nowness. It's as if it takes over this organism, takes ownership of it, like a parasite.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
A mixture of feelings. Some excitement, happiness, joyousness. A deeper space has opened up, quieter, more peaceful, less chatter going on in the mind. Without the narration of the "I" there is just what is happening. Not overthinking anything. There is an undeniable sense of satisfaction also but not overly egotistical if that makes sense. A sense of having arrived yet was always here. Before I started this dialogue there was seeking, wanting something else, enlightenment. There was a drive and urgency. Now there is a peacefulness.


4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
There were a few moments throughout the process where there was an Ohhh! is that it! and something was seen but it wasn't lasting. It's been more of an unfolding process than a boom.
The last few pointers
Is there contracted awareness?
Or is there an awareness of contraction?

In other words:

Is there contracted awareness?
Or is there an awareness of contraction?

In other words:

Is there contracted knowing?
Or is there knowing of contraction?

It made me realise whatever is happening is happening in awareness, always awareness. The looking for an experienced that lasts was just thoughts about that or a story about that arising in awareness. There never was a "one" who could have a permanent change.
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
Decision, intention, Freewill, Choice, Control. Great question and amazing looking. It's still unfolding and revealing in daily life. In short, all illusion. They all indicate needing a "one" to have them. There is no "one". Thought arises, action happens, body moves, me thought owns it. Pre thought is conditioning or what has come before and this influences what comes next. There is also the immediate experience unfolding which influences what happens. If looked at really closely, if looking into the mechanisms, if deconstructed it can be seen that previously thought of an "I" deciding or having free will is an illusion.

What makes things happen?
Conditioning influencing arising thought followed by action and coupled with a perceived ownership. Sitting working, sensations of hunger arising, body making it's way to the kitchen, I thought adding story "must get some food" as if "I" chose to get up and go to the kitchen. There is a lag and "I" thought is always a step behind. It cannot be known what will happen next, what thought or experience will happen next. Not even a second ahead can be known. There can be a story about planning and yeah I'm going to do this or do that but if looked at there is no "I" who is controlling this. There's just thoughts arising, experience being had, thoughts about experience.

What am I responsible for?
Well there is no I to be responsible but for language sake, I have a job and bills to pay, loved ones to care for and things to arrange. In short this stuff just gets done. Thoughts will arise that it is Monday morning and work awaits, body will move through the motions of getting dressed, eating, traveling, getting on the right trains, doing the work etc etc. It just happens and things get done.


6) Anything to add?
Such gratitude for your guidance, your patience, your skill, your kindness, your dedication. You've asked for nothing and given everything. You've guided me to look into the deepest darkest places and shone a light into them. You've opened up the miracle of being alive, the beauty, the sadness, the joy, the sorrow, room for it all and happening to no-one. You've shown me the mechanism of how separation is created and you've helped me to relax and trust THIS. You've been incredibly patient and answered e-mails at all times of day and night. You've been a lifeline. Thank you, thank you, thank you

Happy to take any pointers and look more if you feel there are any areas that don't sit quite right. Like you said previously, the fire is burning. Maybe there is more to burn down but relaxing and trusting and looking seems to be the way.

How does it all sound?

Thank you

Rob

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Matthew
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Re: Falling into

Postby Matthew » Sun May 27, 2018 9:15 pm

Maybe there is more to burn down
Seeing through the belief in a separate self is not an end, it is a beginning.
The burning will proliferate through every aspect of life. Not only this little belief in a funny thing called "self" :-)

There are likely more beliefs that have the exact same pattern. Like the belief in time, subject-object-split, others and so on.

But you already have the perfect attitude for this.
Relax, surrender, trust and simply enjoy the show.


Once this has settled, we can have a look at other beliefs in a forum called "Further Investigations" which is yet invisible for you.


For now, thank you for these beautiful ansers!
I will show our thread to the other guides and see whether they want to highlight something at this point.

I'll be in touch!
First there is a mountain,
Then there is no mountain,
Then there is.

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Matthew
Posts: 2349
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 2:58 pm
Location: Your dreams

Re: Falling into

Postby Matthew » Mon May 28, 2018 7:06 am

There are no more questions.

Please keep an eye on your private inbox here, you should receive two messages.

One from an admin with invitations and one from me.
First there is a mountain,
Then there is no mountain,
Then there is.


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