Hello

[Aris53]

Jadzia,

Are there any uncertainties or questions? If not, and you are ready you can answer our final question. Other guides will read them and might ask questions

I feel ready when it comes to this guidance, but as said it’s just a start of looking and experiencing directly, practising and getting used to it.
Thank you for clearly pointing the direction to AE ☺ It couldn't be any other way.

There is still Aftercare on facebook and the option for further investigations at any time in this forum.

I’m willing to join the Aftercare in Facebook and stay here in LU forum. There’s also a facebook group about AE in “my language" (Finnish) where I’m in.

Aris

[Jadzia]

You went a good path immediately. And yes, realizing that the self isnt exactly what one thought it is, is the beginning of a wonderful journey. Also having a close eyes at thought and what is real or not will be helpful for a while longer until this process starts settling.

Here are our final questions.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
6) Anything to add?

Love,
Jadzia

[Aris53]

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

There’s nothing separate and never was.

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

Separate self is a story like any other story - story meaning an illusion that doesn’t exist and can’t be experienced directly. It starts by names and labels put in there; taking them and values given to them for granted, building up to concepts and stories about “what reality is and what I am”, believing in those thoughts.

How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

“I” go more with what’s actually happening and see ‘the interference of thoughts’ better. I’ve felt almost invisible at times. There’s less self, my roles weakened by seeing what they are about. It’s good and right, but somehow confusing and lonely too.

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

All the questions have forced me to look and answers only come from looking, and not from memory. I can’t say what the last bit was, or if there was one.

Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Any direct experience proves that none of those things in the question are real: I can’t decide, have intentions or “free will”, choose or control, nor be responsible of what is experienced - everything is appearing and happening regardless.

Anything to add?

A little add for my PC problem: I finally got my broken PC replaced with a new used one, but turned out that there’s no interface for the mouse I have, so I have to go back for that tomorrow.

[Jadzia]

Thank you for your answers. :-)
I ask the others to look over them now and let's see if they have any questions. This might take a bit.

Love,
Jadzia

[Jadzia]

Here are some questions for you:

I’ve felt almost invisible at times. There’s less self, my roles weakened by seeing what they are about. It’s good and right, but somehow confusing and lonely too.

What is it exactly that is confused and lonely?
Is there a someone who can feel confused and lonely?
If you look behind the feelings, what do you find?

How do you feel (right now) seeing through the illusory self?

Any direct experience proves that none of those things in the question are real: I can’t decide, have intentions or “free will”, choose or control, nor be responsible of what is experienced - everything is appearing and happening regardless.
Could you give some example from your daily life to how the above is playing out in your life?

Love,
Jadzia

[Aris53]

What is it exactly that is confused and lonely?

They are labels given to body sensations experienced when not looking them directly.

Is there a someone who can feel confused and lonely?

No, there are just thoughts about feelings and feelers, labeling what appears in actual experience.

If you look behind the feelings, what do you find?

I find absence of feelings, which actually feels pretty good.

How do you feel (right now) seeing through the illusory self?

"I" feel fine about feeling and experiencing happening all the time without "me" getting in the way.

Any direct experience proves that none of those things in the question are real: I can’t decide, have intentions or “free will”, choose or control, nor be responsible of what is experienced - everything is appearing and happening regardless.
Could you give some example from your daily life to how the above is playing out in your life?

For example when ”I feel hungry” there's really no ”I” being hungry but body sensation experienced. There's no self having any control or responsibility of that happening.

[Jadzia]

If you look behind the feelings, what do you find?
I find absence of feelings, which actually feels pretty good.

This is refreshing, isn’t it?
Sometimes you look behind a sensation and you won’t find anything. The sensation will pass soon. Sometimes you find something and it is good to start looking as soon as a feeling, aka sensation and thought start to stick. Whatever is behind it can be observed and looked behind too until nothing is left.

Love,
Jadzia

[Aris53]

If you look behind the feelings, what do you find?
I find absence of feelings, which actually feels pretty good.
This is refreshing, isn’t it?

A saviour so to speak - always there

Sometimes you look behind a sensation and you won’t find anything. The sensation will pass soon. Sometimes you find something and it is good to start looking as soon as a feeling, aka sensation and thought start to stick. Whatever is behind it can be observed and looked behind too until nothing is left.

Yes, keep on looking.

[Jadzia]

Hi Aris,

There is the to wish to read more examples from your daily life, of what you thought you used to control, choose, decide etc and found you didn't.

Thank you!

Love,
Jadzia

[Aris53]

There is the to wish to read more examples from your daily life, of what you thought you used to control, choose, decide etc and found you didn't?

Well, I never even thought of that before because it hasn't been questioned, so the assumption would have been that of course it was 'me'.

Do I decide to wake up in the morning, choose to go to toilet, control dressing up and making breakfast and go where ever by what ever means? No, all that, and obviously everything else happen 'automatically', and thoughts about I doing it come afterwards.

Not easy to understand, look or express just because of the sheer conditioning of ”I”. So, little wavering still there, in thoughts.

[Jadzia]

Is there any chooser or decider of any kind?
Since “I” can’t control thoughts or anything else, I can’t be the chooser either. ‘Choosing’ and 'deciding’ happen - accurized as life happens. There’s no chooser there.

Is there a separate individual/entity of any kind whatsoever that could be responsible for anything at all?
What an interesting concept that is, responsibility. One can dwell on and indulge in the thought heaviness of it...but 'my’ experience is that all “responsibility needed” comes with AE. So it also happens just like that without anyone or anything taking the heavy burden on their shoulders.

Here, you already answered it before, remember?
Nice answer now, too. :-)

You will find rereading your thread at some time quite helpful.

Love,
Jadzia

[Aris53]

You will find rereading your thread at some time quite helpful.

I'll do that. Sure I remember roundly what we have talked about before, and also know that there's no holidays in actual experience. Thoughts about nice holidays may appear though. :)

[Jadzia]

Holidays are always good and thoughts about are is fun. And sometimes to forget about AE is good, too.
As soon as 'difficulties' appear like sticky emotions, thoughts running wild ect, then utilizing AE is helpful.
Life is play and simply joy, too. So forgetting everything for a while can be wonderful. :-)

Love,
Jadzia

[Aris53]

Yes, just go with it what ever it is or seems to be.

[Jadzia]

Hi Aris,

just to make 150% sure.

Please take some time and observe when the moments of decision or choices happen.
Can a decider or someone who makes choices be found?
When do thoughts like "I decide for this....."/"I am deciding this" appear: before, during or after a decision or choice is made.

Observe your actions.
Can a doer be found?
What is found?

Love,
Jadzia