TOWARDS LIGHT

[saroj]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
Right from the time after we are born we believe that we are a separate individual, a person with an exclusive identity. This conditioning becomes so strong that we identify ourselves with our work, thoughts and personality. It is only when we start the spiritual process do we realize that our nature is awareness and there is no separate person.

What are you looking for at LU?
I believe I am progressing a bit in my seeing and self inquiry yet still there are challenges I face in day to day life. I would welcome a forum like LU where normal people have awakened as it will motivate me. Also I am excited to be able to have a guide who can clear my doubts , having themselves walked the path . In my day to day progress I am often filled with doubts and queries which for a long time I have tried to solve by guru hopping . I have met few so called enlightened people , but the really valuable ones are rather inaccessible . Hence I was very excited when I got to know about LU

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
As I mentioned previously I hope that a guided conversation will help me clarify my day to day doubts and the challenges I face in the path of awakening and enquiry. Also apart from being accessible I hope that my guide will be more like a friend and companion who I can always turn toin times of help

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
over last few years I have been able to do inquiry on a regular basis . I can feel the I am ness or presence from time to time. Also I do a regular amount of sitting in awareness which helps me. So yes it is a step forward but still there are strong attachments and desires and the "person hood' also appears to be active still

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[T900x28b]

Hy hy :)

It is only when we start the spiritual process we realize that our nature is awareness and there is no separate person.

In what way have you already recognize this for yourself?

how is this experienced?

[saroj]

Hi Guide( I dont know ur name)
In the process of enquiry I am aware of my thoughts, feelings, emotions etc which I had believed was part of ME. So I feel that I Am that which is able to see this or be aware of it. So i feel that this separate self may not be a reality. Yet still it has not penetrated deeply enough. When I go about my normal work I feel angry, sad, jealous or lustful. I ask ' who is angry or sad' but am not able to clearly find out who or what it is. Therefore i feel the need to guide me more
Regards Saroj

[T900x28b]

Hi, my Name is Tracy.

When I go about my normal work I feel angry, sad, jealous or lustful.

There is an experience called feeling. And sadness, anger, jealousy ect.

But without thoughts that are titled, is it more than pure experience?

Take a look at these reflections and ignore the thoughts that give it the title.

How does that feel?

And is there "anybody" who experiences this or is there only experience?

[T900x28b]

Saroj, i'm not sure if I can answer before Saturday because I'm on the road.
But i will try.

All the best!

[saroj]

Hi Tracy , thanx a lot for ur guidance in helping me out. I have been looking and doing inquiry for sometime but still feel a bit stuck. Hoping u will help me cross the gate.
Yes, I can see that anger, sadness is a feeling and experience. But I wonder who is it that feels the pain or sadness because it can be quite intense. Although on looking I don’t find anyone but I still cant shake off the feeling that there is me who is hurting
For example lust. If I feel attracted to some women its not that there is just lust happening but there is some ‘ME’ who is attracted to some other, who in turn responds.

Then envy or jealousy. Recently a colleague of mine with the same qualification and standing got a brilliant promotion and raise. Despite my spiritual practise I can’t shake off the feeling of envy or jealousy at his good fortune even though we started together. Some ME again feels jealous, though again on looking I done find one but the feeling hurts

When I look or sit in introspection I cant find anyone but the feeling of me remains. And once Im back at work or my routine activities the ME comes back again very easily.

I hope I have been able to highlight the areas Im not able to get unstuck even by looking
Regards and gratitude
Saroj

[T900x28b]

But I wonder who is it that feels the pain or sadness...

It needs "someone" so that feelings arise?
or are there just sensations?

Let's take a look at your expectations, because of the recognition of the "I-illusion".
what do you expect from it?
what do you expect to be different afterwards?
what remains the same?
What will be the moment of knowing?
what do you think you could lose?

[T900x28b]

i wonted to tell you, my english is very basical, i use a translation-programm.
i hope that´s ok for you and you understand me.
if anything is unclear please say.

[saroj]

Hi Tracy , Thanx for ur time and guidance. No problem about English as long as you understand what I am trying to convey

It needs "someone" so that feelings arise?
or are there just sensations?

Yes, for feelings to arise there must be a SOMEONE. And here I am facing the problem. On looking I am not finding a person but still when these feelings come they cause a lot of disturbance . So the I feeling is still very strong. Just looking doesn’t dissolve that Me feeling. I know they are sensations but sensations is coming to something called ME


Let's take a look at your expectations, because of the recognition of the "I-illusion".
what do you expect from it?
what do you expect to be different afterwards?
what remains the same?
What will be the moment of knowing?
what do you think you could lose?



I am afraid I didn’t understand your question clearly here. What do I expect from what, the I illusion you mean ? I don’t think I am expecting anything but it is so strong that it is just there

what do you expect to be different afterwards?
what remains the same?
What will be the moment of knowing?
what do you think you could lose?

Here again I am not sure what you mean by what do u expect to be different. I will really appreciate if you can explain a bit because Im not sure I understood your question.
Thanx again and warm regards
Saroj

[T900x28b]

it's about-what do you expect to see through the "I-Illusion"?
What do you think is different after seeing through the "I-Illusion"?
What do you think after seeing through the "I-Illusion" as well as now?
What do you think you could lose after seeing through the "I-illusion"?
What do you think will be the moment of seeing through the "I-Illusion"?

take your time and be honest with you here.

(Are the questions now understandable?)

[saroj]

Hi Tracy, trying to anwer ur questions,

it's about-what do you expect to see through the "I-Illusion"?
What do you think is different after seeing through the "I-Illusion"?
What do you think after seeing through the "I-Illusion" as well as now?
What do you think you could lose after seeing through the "I-illusion"?
What do you think will be the moment of seeing through the "I-Illusion"?

I expect that by the end of this I will be able to look and see that there is no real person or self which exists, that its a ghost which appears real

The real difference will be that I will loose the illusion that I am or have ever been in control of my life. As things stand now I feel that it is ME who is in charge of everything and so there is the compulsion to be the best PERSON possible and to do things as perfectly as possible. If something goes right the credit goes to me and if something screws up I am to take the blame

The thing that I will loose after seeing thru the I illusion is the fact that I am in control of things. That I can rectify things if they go wrong and try to correct a situation if things go wrong

The moment of seeing through of the I Illusion wil be hopefully experienced as a sense of lightness and unburdening . The pressure of maintaining the I self creates a lot of struggle

thanx and regards Saroj

[T900x28b]

However you imagine, it will be different.

Try to be completely open here.

Otherwise you might be fixated on how it should be and miss what's already there.

The thing that I will loose after seeing thru the I illusion is the fact that I am in control of things. That I can rectify things if they go wrong

Situations can still be corrected, but maybe you see then that you are not the doer. So you're not responsible. Thus, no blame for anything.


Let's examine that with the control.

You can investigate that in everyday things. How and when does a decision come about?

For example.

Sit or lie down, try to sit as long as possible. When does the decision come up? Are you doing it? And where does the will come from? Does he come from you, or does he just show up?

Relax and take your time.

Tell me about your experience and examine it in other situations as well.

[T900x28b]

Hi Saroj,

i think I did not express myself clearly enough here.

When does the decision come up?

i wanted say

When comes the decision to stand up?

[saroj]

Sit or lie down, try to sit as long as possible. When does the decision come up to stand up? Are you doing it? And where does the will come from? Does he come from you, or does he just show up?


Hi Tracy, to get back to ur questions above. Over last 2 days I did a lot of observing

When i was siiting down , the desire to stand up or stretch came from within. It was a spontaneous happening. Similarly the desire to eat or sleep came spontaneously.

A thought comes up by itself to go for a drive and I go for a car drive. But then isn’t there an I that drives the car? That is not happening on its own.
Or as a doctor ( which is my profession) based on my skills I may decide to give some medication or tests to a a patient. That is based on MY skills , so there does appear to be a ME doing it

So my response and observation has been a mixture. Certain acts seem to be happening on their own but for some it seems that there is this I.

Waiting your guidance
Thanx saroj

[T900x28b]

it seems to you especially at actions that require a certain "know-how" that there is a "SOMEONE". Correct?

Do not you see straight in this situations that decisions / actions are arise from alone?

How car driving simple happen?

How thoughts calculate "this or that" medication?

Are you doing these thoughts?
Or are they simple poping up?

We will examine this step by step.

but first answer the above questions.