Tellmewhoyouare

[Sarah7]

Morning Victor

It could be that simple?

Have a look.
Hugs Sarah xx

[TellmewhoIam]

Hello Sarah,
I've been reading gateless gatecrashers, and many points have been clarified for me.
The fear, the fight, the jumping,... all artificial challenges raised from the "I" concept!
If the "I" concept is not completely detached, all short of energy loops and bs start to build up like mad.
When one realises that the "I" does not exist, the artificial constructs start to fall down, no drama involved.

One just let go and be the truth, and for the first time let the life to its "job"
It's so simple that we cannot let it be, our pour little egos struggling to remain under the flashlight, struggling for the only thing they cannot be, to be real.

It's soaking in Sarah, it's soaking in.

Wishing you a good, wonderful, start of the week. I will be this week down to Mallorca with limited access to internt, but will reach your answers via mobile devices there.

Hugs,
Victor

[TellmewhoIam]

Morning Victor

It could be that simple?

Have a look.
Hugs Sarah xx

Oh sorry Sarah, I didn't get a notification of this answer. Just thought you were off for the weekend.
So..yes. The more internalized the truth that no "I" exists, the more all seems like a big joke really. All the chasing, all the importance of things, .. so much nonsense everywhere. Makes me laugh.
I even had a dream showing me the futility of ego endeavors last night :-) , even my mind has too partnered with you Sarah :-D

Just I guess I shall let this truth to soak in at its own pace?

Hugs,
Victor

[Sarah7]

Morning Victor.

and many points have been clarified for me.

Anything you want to bring here for us to look at?

One just let go and be the truth, and for the first time let the life to its "job"

Where do you feel/think you are in control? Also resistance is a good place to look.
Hugs Sarah xxx

[TellmewhoIam]

Good morning Sarah,

All I could say is that there is a feeling of confusion and sadness at the moment.

Also resistance is a good place to look.

How do "I" look into those feelings Sarah?
Feeling those rooted feelings without getting involved with them seems like a skill that gets developed.

Hugs
Victor

[Sarah7]

Hey Victor
Just give me an example of where you either feel in control or where you specifically notice resistance, then I can ask more detailed questions. Ok.
Hugs Sarah xxx

[TellmewhoIam]

Hello Sarah,
Ok, every time I look to give you an example of either control or resistance I just find some expectation that was not fulfilled.
The main expectation I had is that I visualized the end of the search to lead to mental bliss, at least.
Well, I see it is not so. What is is just what is.
I see it is more a beginning of a virtue path than a destination on itself.
Sarah, I think I don't have more questions.
If you have any, I'm here for it.

Thank you for being there.

Hugs
Victor

[Sarah7]

Hey Victor
There are a few more bits I’d like to check if that’s ok? One being our idea is seperation and the senses. So I’d like to start with seeing. Ok?

Gaze at an object. Turn up that inner magnifying glass to observe what's happening in direct experience. In seeing, what is being experienced? What is happening when "seeing" is happening? What is doing the seeing? What is being seen? What does "seeing" consists of? Describe the actual, direct experience of seeing. Do you first perceive the object using some other sense, and then see it later? Can you find a dividing line between the object and the seeing of it? Or are the object and the seeing of it inseparable? Is there an entity called "you" experiencing the seeing? Can you find a dividing line between "you" and seeing? Is it an accurate description of direct experience? Are there really three entities there in direct experience, an "I" and seer and an object? Or is there only seeing? What do you see about the thought, "I'm seeing that object"?

Try it with various sights e.g. out of the window at a distant view. See if you can find a way to separate the object from the seeing and the seeing from the seer. Where does one start and the other end? How many senses are there here - 1 or more?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[TellmewhoIam]

Hey Sarah,
Totally ok for me.
Would it be ok for you if I lay the answer on Monday afternoon?
By then I would be able to allocate real quality time (and good wifi connection) to address the exercise properly.

Hope is ok for you. I really appreciate your presence.

Hugs
Victor

[Sarah7]

No probs. Hugs Sarah xxx

[TellmewhoIam]

Hello Sarah, my relentless beacon towards Truth.

Back now into civilization. Glad to have the means and time to delve into and write the answer to the questions.

In seeing, what is being experienced? What is happening when "seeing" is happening?

There is a little lemon tree on the window on the left side. On seeing it, the experience is as if a screen with the sensory input from the eyes was being reproduced. There is not too much happening when the seeing is taking place, only after some brief moments the relational structure of the mind starts to light up some emotions about it, then if the present moment is lost, some verbalized thoughts follow them.

What is doing the seeing? What is being seen? What does "seeing" consists of?

The seeing; when face towards the tree, eyes open and light conditions as they are, just takes place. No subject does the seeing, it takes place as inevitable happening on its own.
What is being seen? A form commonly agreed to be labeled as a tree reflected the light into the eyes, and the brain received the input. It is not being done anything into it.
Seeing does not consist on any subcomponents or agents. It is a label used to share an specific information flow into the brain of some organic entities.

Do you first perceive the object using some other sense, and then see it later?

Seeing was an automatic, direct atemporal flow of information with no agent or receiver involved.

Can you find a dividing line between the object and the seeing of it? Or are the object and the seeing of it inseparable?

There exists no such division. If the "division" concept was entertained on the mind, the direct experience of seeing would not be happening. Those two mind states seem to be incompatible with each other.

Object and seeing are like notes that belong to the same melody. They feel as one intertwined with each other.

Is there an entity called "you" experiencing the seeing? Can you find a dividing line between "you" and seeing? Is it an accurate description of direct experience? Are there really three entities there in direct experience, an "I" and seer and an object? Or is there only seeing?

There is no "me" entity on the happening of the seeing. Seeing just happens, with no attachment to a doer or a receiver. Seeing happens as a sequence of the now, one note on the "song" of existence, but there is no player of being played agents on it. There is just seeing. Emotions and thoughts get triggered in the mind after the seeing, but no actor creates them neither.

What do you see about the thought, "I'm seeing that object"?

A feeling of straight wrongness gets triggered. The thought seems as a total aberration, that even makes me laugh.

If someone owned a piece of land with a river on it and she/he said "I make the water of this river flow", that feels as wrong as "I'm seeing that object"

Try it with various sights e.g. out of the window at a distant view. See if you can find a way to separate the object from the seeing and the seeing from the seer. Where does one start and the other end? How many senses are there here - 1 or more?

Futile was my attempt to find a way to separate object, seeing and seer. It's all an unfolding expression from the same origin. There is no seer, and seeing happens automatically taking object input.

There is one sense here, the sight. Emotions and thoughts might follow or not, as subproduct of the mind.


Thank you for being there Sarah,

Hugs,
Victor

[Sarah7]

Hey Victor
Ok so straight onto listening then.

Notice the sounds you’re hearing, like the chirping of the birds. Notice the habitual thought, "Those are birds." Notice the habitual thought, "I hear that." Now just pay attention to how hearing happens. Take your time with it. Can you find a dividing line between the sound and the hearing of the sound? Are you doing the hearing? Or is it truer to say that hearing is just happening? Then look to see whether there's a dividing line between the hearing of it and a separate entity, a "you" doing the hearing. In other words, what does it mean when you say, "I'm hearingthat sound"? Are there really three entities there in direct experience, an "I" and hearing and a sound? Or is there just one experience of hearing, with no one as a hearer.
Look closely. Try it with various sounds. See if you can find a way to separate the sound from the hearing and the hearing from the hearer. Where does one start and the other end? So what do you see about the thought, "I'm hearing that sound"? Is it an accurate description of direct experience? What is a noise? Is that a label also? Is the sound there? Can you really know?
Have fun!
Hugs Sarah xxx

[TellmewhoIam]

Hello Sarah,

Can you find a dividing line between the sound and the hearing of the sound? Are you doing the hearing? Or is it truer to say that hearing is just happening?

All are one, simultaneous, indivisible. Existence of sound and ears are hearing, not as origin and consequence, they just unfold effortlessly. Totally no agent does the hearing, it does happen as is.

what does it mean when you say, "I'm hearingthat sound"? Are there really three entities there in direct experience, an "I" and hearing and a sound? Or is there just one experience of hearing, with no one as a hearer.

There is just one experience of hearing, clearly. This particular embodiment labelled Victor might express to hear a sound as language convention only.

Try it with various sounds. See if you can find a way to separate the sound from the hearing and the hearing from the hearer. Where does one start and the other end?

Well, there is a soft but constant tinnitus happening on its own, the same way the street noises pop up on the "hearing screen"
No hearer at all, no agent to be found, only plain raw sensory input, just happening.

So what do you see about the thought, "I'm hearing that sound"? Is it an accurate description of direct experience? What is a noise? Is that a label also? Is the sound there? Can you really know?

"I'm hearing that sound" actually feels aberrant and a distortion of reality. It reads as if a joke about direct experience was written.

A "noise" is a label, only a label. It might be part of a thought in the mind of an individual after a sound triggers unpleasant emotions. Sound is not found in a label, is not found in "noise", is nowhere to be found, sound is.

There is no knower to know what just actually is. There is no "me" to know anything, there is experience unfolding, as everything else just unfolds with no agent behind happenings.


Grateful hugs,
Victor

[Sarah7]

Morning Victor
Lovely. So, onto to touch.

Touch the table (or any object) with your eyes shut (or open). Pretend like it’s the first time you have ever touched a table. Go straight to the raw sensation/perception. What is your direct experience of this ‘table’? List your direct experience. Is it senses again? Is it thoughts again? Look very closely. Which comes first the senses or the thoughts? Does the sensation of touching come with a shape, density, weight, size, colour, age or function? Does this sensation come with a ‘not me’ label or ‘other’ label? Is it one sensation/perception or two? Look at how thoughts try and take over, try and explain, try and prove. Notice your memories or references with which you compare the experience.
Sit with these sensations. Look at them. Look at the labelling e.g. table, hand. Look at the thoughts or story that attach at the end of this list if any. What is your direct experience of these words? Do they exist outside of thought? Are they sensations again? Are they just thoughts again? Look very closely. Which comes first the sensation or the thoughts? Don’t pay attention to the thoughts just look at what they do, when they come in.
Hugs Sarah xxx

[TellmewhoIam]

Morning Sarah,

I will gladly delve into the exercise this afternoon, with some quality time for it.

Hugs,
Victor