Falling into

[Matthew]

It is busy around here at the moment..
You'll hear from me tomorrow again!

[Cloudberry]

No rush

[Matthew]

volition, planning, actions, I related things, everything, talking, writing, anything that affects the I.

How do these things affect an "I"?
Does talking affect the "I"?

Isn't "I" just an innocent thought arising alongside talking, alongside all these things?

Then coming at it from the perspective of seeing I as just a thought then I isn't responsible for anything.

Exactly.
A thought cannot be responsible for anything.
But this "seeing as" sounds a little like a view.
This does not need to be a view.
Let's be clear: Could "I" ever be anything else than a thought?

[Cloudberry]

volition, planning, actions, I related things, everything, talking, writing, anything that affects the I.
How do these things affect an "I"?
Does talking affect the "I"?

It can seem like these things are tied in to "I". They can appear to to be "I" driven or "I" influenced. Only though, when "I" thought is not seen as "I" and story is believed in.

If "I me" is seen as the thought, story that it is then it doesn't affect anything other than more thoughts about those things. It's just story, story, story, story, story, story.

Isn't "I" just an innocent thought arising alongside talking, alongside all these things?

This needs to be seen clearly so looking will continue

But this "seeing as" sounds a little like a view.

This is where sticking is happening or clear seeing is not happening or where I'm going round in circles looking for something rather than seeing what is right here under my nose.

This does not need to be a view

I want it NOT to be a view. I want to be 100% full clarity from every angle that there is no "I" never was and never has been. I say it, It's starting to be seen but I'm not sure if there is that scream from the rooftops certainty.

I feel I'm so close but haven't quite untangled from the illusion of "I" or the addiction to thinking.

Let's be clear: Could "I" ever be anything else than a thought?

Sitting here, sounds, sensations, smells, tastes, feelings etc and thoughts. Nothing else. Thoughts create the story of "ME" that's all they are. Thoughts about me yesterday tomorrow are simply thoughts arising now, conjuring up the story of "Me"

There is no "ME" "I" outside of thought. To others I am just a character in their minds. Other people are just characters in my mind. They have physical presence and can be seen, heard etc but they are just a character.

"I" can't be anything else than a thought, I mean what else could it be?

Oh sorry for the rambling and sorry to drag this out. I feel I'm so close

[Matthew]

All is good.

It's just story, story, story, story, story, story.

Exactly. Right now there is a story of a "someone" who is doing an inquiry at Liberation Unleashed.
This assumed someone is sitting in front of a screen right now and is waiting for a "scream from the rooftops certainty".
But what is truly here now.
There is a body, there is a screen, there are thoughts about such a someone arising.
Can this be clearly seen?
What more clarity could there ever be wished for?



Deeper into the void:

"I" and story is believed in.

Is there something believing in the story?
Or is this "believing in the story" also just an aspect of the story?

For a belief to TRULY exist, there must be something believing.
Is there?

[Cloudberry]

Can this be clearly seen?

Yes this is clearly seen. Direct experience and thinking

What more clarity could there ever be wished for?

Less thinking. Is that just more thinking? If we take experience and divide it into two parts, direct experience via sense doors and thought. Experience can be dominated by thinking and less attention given to raw sense door data, like an 80-20 split with 80% given to thought. A story gets spun about what is happening. Not real. A dream. If I'm honest less thinking could be wished for.


Is there something believing in the story?
Or is this "believing in the story" also just an aspect of the story?

It must be an aspect of the story. I don't believe there is a seperate self. There is just a story about. But the story about feels strong. Right now there is a strong sense of presence, of nowness, of there being nothing but this. No separation, nowhere to be or go other than here. There couldn't be anywhere or anything than this. Thinking is quiet, experience is strong.

For a belief to TRULY exist, there must be something believing.
Is there?

There is only awareness, direct experience, thought. There is no separate thing believing. It can seem like a thought is "real" and it can feel like there is a someone who is believing. Like right now the thought was looked into "how to stop the believing in thoughts" happening. Then there was a realisation that "that" is just another thought. Then whatever is thought next is just another thought.

So in looking there is only looking. In thinking there is only thinking. In feeling there is only feeling. In insomnia there is only insomnia and thoughts about insomnia but "nobody" that insomnia is happening too, right? There is just laying here awake, feeling wide awake at 4am, eyes slightly scratchy and tired and ....... The story"about" it but "nobody" who it is happening too. Just thoughts about. Just thoughts about. Just thoughts about. Just thoughts about. Just thoughts about.

[Matthew]

What more clarity could there ever be wished for?

Less thinking. Is that just more thinking?

So to speak, yes...

Less thinking.

Is there even "thinking"?
Or aren't there just thoughts appearing spontaneously with the label "thinking"?
Like that: "This is a thought" ... "And that is a thinking thought"...

If we take experience and divide it into two parts, direct experience via sense doors and thought. Experience can be dominated by thinking

Very good observation!
Experience can only be dominated by thought if there is a division between the aspects of experience.
To divide experience into seeing, hearing, tasting, smelling, sensation and thought is a useful tool on the way.
But it is only relatively true.

Have a look at present experience.
Is there actually a separation?

Is there a separation between the heard and the seen?
Where does the heard end and the seen begin?

When even the labels seeing, hearing, tasting, smelling, sensation and thought would disappear..
What remains here?
In your very own words!

[Cloudberry]

Or aren't there just thoughts appearing spontaneously with the label "thinking"?

Interesting. Thoughts just arising on their own. Action based thoughts preceding the action before being aware of them. Wanting to say before I am aware of them. Maybe that is the label you are referring too?

There's definitely thought just arising without any conscious will as such. They just arise on their own. Open the door, pick up the cup, say this, do that etc. Then the mind catches up and becomes aware and owns it.
There's still this labeling part which needs looking into. This seems to be where the "I" trouble starts.

Or aren't there just thoughts appearing spontaneously with the label "thinking"?

No separation. All happens as one. Together. Instantly.
It's possible for attention to zoom in on as an object but there's a sense of being part of it all.

When even the labels seeing, hearing, tasting, smelling, sensation and thought would disappear..
What remains here?
In your very own words!

It feels connected. All happening at once together. Like being immersed in everything. If I tried to shake it off I couldn't. If I spin around quickly and jump up and down it's still there and cannot be shaken. I'm part of it. Like now is all there is. Future or past is just a thought happening in the now. Richness, fullness but also lightness. Everything. Not here or there. Instant with no delay.

Home

[Matthew]

Amazing...

Then the mind catches up and becomes aware and owns it.

Does a "mind" exist, that can own things?
Have a look!

This seems to be where the "I" trouble starts.

What has trouble?

Not here or there. Instant with no delay.
Home

How does it feel to see this?

[Cloudberry]

Interesting looking.

Might be some delay in replying as traveling

Hoping all well

Rob

[Cloudberry]

Does a "mind" exist, that can own things?
Have a look!

Mind cannot own things except a story of owning things.
Another story.

What has trouble?

Looking into this.


The story of I. So convincing. A habit that seems so real.


Am going to hold the day lightly and let it unfold as it will.

How does it feel to see this?

Magical at times and then totally ordinary.
When attention is not swallowed up by thought but is open and receptive it is wonderful.

[Matthew]

When attention is not swallowed up by thought

When this happpens, every time. Really. Have a close look!
Is there something swallowed up?

The story of I. So convincing. A habit that seems so real.

What about the story of Batman.
Is it also convincing? Does it also seem so real?
Guess not.
What then makes the story of "I" more real? More convincing?

Compare the story of "I" to the story of any other fictional character.
Report what comes up!

[Cloudberry]

When this happpens, every time. Really. Have a close look!
Is there something swallowed up?

No-thing gets swallowed up. It's like there is no thought then there is thought story and it feels like the space or awareness or the peace of non story is replaced by a thought based story. There is nothing that gets swallowed up. This is good looking and is uncovering the illusion of a seperate self from another direction.
When in storytelling the peace of breeze and breathing and sounds is lost and attention is diverted into the stories. I guess there is a misdirected understanding goal driven aim of being at peace all the time.

Really what we are doing is seeing that there is no separate self, "I" " Me". This is just thinking and stories that feels like a "ME".

Compare the story of "I" to the story of any other fictional character.
Report what comes up!

I'll look into this.

[Matthew]

Really what we are doing is seeing that there is no separate self, "I" " Me". This is just thinking and stories that feels like a "ME".

Right!
Appearing thought stories about a "ME".
Seeing them for what they are.
Just stories.
Stories about a fictional character.
Stories thought by no one.
That's it.

I guess there is a misdirected understanding goal driven aim of being at peace all the time.

What exactly in actual experience could be either at peace or not at peace?

[Cloudberry]

What exactly in actual experience could be either at peace or not at peace?

This has been a great pointer.

in actual experience

There seems to be peace in actual experience. Pure, rich aliveness.

The "I" thought that is what latches on to being at peace or not at peace. Thoughts about being at peace or not being at peace.

The "I" thought is constant, all the time. It can seem like a problem to which there is no solution. It seems to go in so deep and permeates everything. Then it is realised that this is thinking also. The "I" thought seeking peace for the"I" thought. The "I" seeking enlightenment, but the "I" cannot be enlightened because the "I" is just thought.

Today's mantra:

"I is a thought"