End of the stories

[Anastacia42]

Very interesting image. Can you say more about the direct experience that was described as

running drops that included different descriptions of me, just running down and then disappearing. And behind them, nothing! That image/thought really blew the mind

How is it today?

Much love,

[Sinnu]

Hi,

I don’t know what that thing was, A thought/short moment of consciousness that made ’I don’t exist’ so clear there’s no doubts about it anymore. I/self is only thoughts that exist as long as they stay in mind but now it’s easy too see that there’s nothing real there, just emptiness. When I got that image in mind, there was no narrator there, only this image with waterdrops running down (like on a window on A rainy day) but they included ideas of me (somthing like ’difficult’, ’unsure’, ’sensitive’, things that were said about ”me” or were experienced.) but all the drops just stayed one short moment and were gone. For A short moment there only was this image and then other thoughts started to interpret it and it was harder just to experience it anymore. But wow, how powerfull it was, like something that was needed in this point, simple but clear.

I have had quite ordinary day today but inside there’s joy about this experience and seeing behind the scenes so to say. it’s something that can be felt again but it’s not so clear as yesterday. Thoughts would like to analyze it more but it’s good as it is - what’s real stays and what’s unreal goes like raindrops in the image. Can’t say more about it now, need to let it be and do it’s magic...

[Anastacia42]

Perfect. Yes, let it do its magic, as you say.

Look in the way you've learned.

Much love,

Stacy

[Sinnu]

Hello Stacy,

I don’t know what to write to you... Life goes on as before, ordinary work and familylife. When there’s many things going on and busy times, there’s no difference to what was experienced before - because it’s only doing and taking care of things, no time to think so much and get stuck on mind. When it’s more quiet, thoughts go back to familiar paths and it starts to get more personal. Even then, in some point, this knowing that actually nothing is personal, there’s no I or you, comes to mind and gives a new, fresh perspective to experience. If there’s more time to concentrate on direct experience and just to perceive it, it gets easier and easier to notice how it all works - sensations and thoughts -> more thoughts labeling, interpreting & telling stories -> more sensations and interpeting, feelings etc. It’s a loop that goes around all the time seamlessly and when noticed, it can’t take controll of everything anymore - all these many thoughts just come and go (including ”I” thoughts) and it’s calmer and not so dramatic with all the emotions.

Do you have some more questions for me?

Love,
Sinnu

[Anastacia42]

That is so beautiful, Sinnu.

Do you feel ready for the final questions?

Much love,
Stacy

[Sinnu]

Good morning,

Yes I can answer now the last questions.

It’s very clear now that self and I are only words, thoughts and ideas. We can very well and even better live this life without it, it’s only good for communication because people are so used to using personpronomen.

There are still a some thinking and wondering about direct experiencing in mind. Will post them to you for comments:

Thoughts clearly just come and go - but for me it seems that thoughts often very much affect doings in life, of course doing then just happen but thoughts are an important part of it and put focus on spesific actions. Same thing with feelings, thoughts affect body sensations a lot - if thoughts are very negative and taken seriously, it also feels in body and interpretation makes more thoughts and so on. But in these processes the thought of ”I” is not needed, it goes this way by itself. Do you see it this way too?

[Sinnu]

Hi,

Have to write you about my recent experience and perceptions:

I just finished cleaning our house. I like cleaning but get easily angry, when doing it and that causes problems sometimes.

Now the same thing happened: I started to vacuum and it’s so familiar action, so no thinking or concentration needed there. While doing this physical action thoughts wandered and started to think about certain people in life to whom ”I” easily get negative feelings.

Thoughts went on and aggression grew up in the mind and body (tension, heaviness in the body). It continued for some time until ”I” noticed that thoughts and feelings were totally out of controll, I felt so angry that didn’t really know how to deal with so strong emotions. Luckily there was this moment of awareness and got some space for thoughts and feelings. When awereness came in, it was interesting just to see the process going on and noticing all the mad stories in the mind - no wonder why it felt so bad and angry, the content of the thoughts was absolutely insane! But it took some time before feelings settled down and other state of mind was able to step in.

This was a very good example, what happen’s when thoughts and feelings get the controll and how it changes when awareness of the real situation (direct experience, not just the mindcontent) gets there...

-Sinnu-

[Anastacia42]

Good morning!

Let's see what comes up with these. As you are noticing, this is a beginning, not an end. For example, you might choose to explore the house cleaning and anger you described with the 10 Fetters work on want /don't want or maybe with the Work of Byron Katie or some other helpful exploration.

But right now let's see about these questions.


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Much love,
Stacy

[Sinnu]

[quote] [1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

[i]No there’s notan never was. Self and I are only words & lebels, but they don’t exist in reality. ”I” thoughts keep up the illusion of self and these thoughts also exist only for A short while until the new thought comes. So they exist A short while in different thoughts but thoughts can only discribe the reality, thoughts are never the reality itself. [/i]

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

[i] It starts when we are kids - all the other people learn us that we are personalities with names, different qualities etc. The illusion is that we believe in separate self, that exists somewhere (in the body/mind) and is in charge of our lives. From my experience it’s easy to go along with this illusion, if one starts to believe in thoughts and take them seriously and don’t remember that I only exists in thoughts, It’s not real. [/i]

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

[i] It feels calmer and easier, it’s A relief to become aware of that thoughts are only thoughts, not real, life takes care of itself. In past days I have had many situations when the old conditioning has taken control and then in some point this awareness is noticed and it almost makes me laugh how insane this old way of being is! [/i]

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

[i] It was this whole process, all the exercises about direct experience and finally the mental image that came one evening - all the ideas, judgements, experiences, memories, feelings of me are just thoughts, like waterdrops running down, nothing to be attached to or real. And behind that all is emptiness, life living and happening. [/i]

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

[i] All the things in life happen by themselves, nothing makes them happen - or mayby the life itself but it can only be experienced, not explined. How could I (= thought) be responsible for anything because I don’t even exist for real? [/i]

6) Anything to add?
-
/quote]

[Anastacia42]

Thank you, yes.

From my experience it’s easy to go along with this illusion, if one starts to believe in thoughts and take them seriously and don’t remember that I only exists in thoughts, It’s not real.

What is it exactly that "starts to believe in thoughts and takes them seriously and don’t remember that I only exists in thoughts"?

Where exactly is the one that is doing that?

Much love,

[Sinnu]

Hi,

Thank you, yes.

From my experience it’s easy to go along with this illusion, if one starts to believe in thoughts and take them seriously and don’t remember that I only exists in thoughts, It’s not real.

What is it exactly that "starts to believe in thoughts and takes them seriously and don’t remember that I only exists in thoughts"?

Where exactly is the one that is doing that?

Much love,

That’s the funny thing because it’s just another thought, nothing more and it can’t be found anywhere, only as a mental consruction in mind. So it’s A thought that tells/confirms that it must be this way and then A new thought continues the same story and it all goes on, until there’s another thought that questions it and A new way of thinking can come in.

- Sinnu -

[Anastacia42]

Yes. There will be thoughts & they are usually neutral or amusing - until we have one we still believe. It is a process, now that you have seen no self. Other areas will unwind over time.

Congratulations, Sinnu!

You have seen no self, passed the gateless gate & seen how it was no gate at all... in English!

One of the admins will change the color of your name & the picture in this forum. They will invite you into Facebook groups where you can ask questions & get support. There are a few Finnish folks in those, I am told.

It is both Easter and Passover weekend and replies have been a little bit slow, so don't worry if it takes a while.

Welcome!
Much love!
Stacy

[Sinnu]

Thank you Stacy for all your help in this process! ❤️ It’s been so interesting and eye opening and the process will continue.

Love,
Sinnu

[Anastacia42]

You're welcome. It was a pleasure.

Much love,

[Anastacia42]

Hi Sinnu!

It appears I neglected to tell you where to look for invitations to the groups, if you are interested. There are is a private message feature. On the top right you'll see that you have a private message that gives you those instructions.

Hope you are having fun.

Love,