End of the stories

[Sinnu]

Now I got the looking thing for real... I mean the excercise where I looked at my hand on the table. In reality there is just seeing the sight, no boundaries and separate objects. If I look without words/thoughts/understanding there’s only colours and shapes. if I wouldn’t have learnt that the hand is the hand (and mine) and the other object is the table and all the other information, how to interpret the seeing etc. it would be easier to see everything as it is...

[Anastacia42]

Yes! It makes a big difference, doesn't it?

Willing to give writing without the inaccurate " I " another try?

Is there an "I or me" involved in the hand looking or the hearing or any of the senses? Or is it just sensing happening? Looking, typing, breathing?

Feel it. See what can be done with that. Say what is going on.

Language is not so much the barrier as the conditioning described.

Much love,

[Sinnu]

Hi,

I try to write about my day without using I/me. Did you mean something like that as an exercise:

First the waking up happened in the morning. Then relaxing in the bed, some thoughts came to mind about the past, feelings in the body (pressure sensation in the chest), that were labelled by thoughts as anxiety, then getting of the bed and walking downstairs. Coffee was made, smelling and tasting of coffee sensed and then the breakfast was eaten. Sensing the soft texture of porridge in mouth, eating and after that feeling full in stomach. Then some playing and hugging with kids. Some thoughts came up and warm sensation in the chest was felt and labelled as ”love & happiness”. Then cleaning in the house, talking and planning with family members, preparing to go out. Some thoughts came up, tightness was felt in the body and labelled as ”hurry & nervous”. Clothes were put on, some walking happened and the outdoor was opened and cold air was felt on the face. And so on...

[Anastacia42]

Great! Excellent English. Not too hard, right?

Let's try a comparison.

Write for me what you are experiencing right now using the words I and me. Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just plain description of here now.

Like this: I am lying in bed. I am hearing rain. I am typing these words. Do this for 10 minutes.

Watch the body; what physical sensations are happening?

Then for the next 10 minutes write what you are experiencing without the words "I" and "me." Just describe the experience as it is happening in the moment, using verbs:

Waiting for next thought, typing, breathing, blinking, hearing rain. Again watch what is happening in the body.

Now compare these two ways to label experience.

What do you notice?

[Sinnu]

Hi,

So here’s the ’I’ experience of this moment:

I sit on my bed. I write this message on my phone. I hear my kids playing downstairs and their father talking to them. I have my coffeecup on the table next to bed. I drink coffee, I feel how warm it is and just the right taste for me. I take one chocolate bite and notice, how good it tastes with coffee. I feel tired, I would like to take a nap but I think it is not good time for that now. I drink some more coffee and try to relax. I notice some thoughts and some feelings that I labell as ”bored”. Then I start to think about my day, all the things we have done today and can’t find any reason to be bored now - I’ve been very active today, it’s nice to be home and beautiful sunny weather outside so everything is just fine right now.

***********

Then without I:

Sitting on the bed, drinking coffee. Hearing some voices downstairs, intepreting them and then having some thoughts ” kids are making too much noice now” and then having some feelings in the body (A little faster heartbeat, warmth on the face) and labelling it as ”irritation”. Then having new thoughts (”It’s not so bad, it’s all right”) and feeling relax again. Sitting, breathing, thinking and typing. Hearing voices again, listening to them and letting them be. Breathing, seeing, listening, feeling bed against the body...

When I use ’I’ it all feels much more personal and makes me A little amused. I know, I don’t actually own anything in this life but I talk about my cup, my kids, my day etc. - It’s only A cup, my kids are actually children this body gave birth to and takes care of but they don’t really belong to me but to life itself, this day is just happening, it’s not ’my’ day etc. It’s easy to see how things just happen, thoughts pop up, body reactions are felt and thoughts tell me, how to understand them. Certain type of thoughts can make this bod react A lot, and old and new stories are being developed. When I think about real experience of situations I notice how simple it all is, if I don’t take thoughts, feelings and mindstories so seriously. Easier said than done but I have A good start already... 😊

[Sinnu]

Hi Stacy,

I wan’t to write you A few things that I’ve been thinking lately. Emotions and feelings & thoughts. I have certain thoughts & memories about past that often come to mind. These thoughts bring almost immediately strong sensations in the body and feelings about anxiety, anger & sorrow and I can get deeply into the feelings for hours - even days.

I understand that it’s these imaginery thoughts that wake up these feelings. it’s only A story that thoughts are telling inside the head and projecting to present situations, and negative cycle of thoughts that catch me and put this process on again and again. I actually know for sure that most of these thoughts & memories aren’t real ( = aren’t describing the reality in past or present) and there’s no need to feel and react the way I do. Even then it feels that I don’t always have controll of the process. Trying to just see and observe these situations and tell myself it’s only thoughts, not real and blablabla. I hope that realization ’there’s no self’ would help in these situations but don’t really get it work when the feelings are on and all the shit starts. Any advice/ideas?

The other thing is about senses. Have noticed that my hearing Sense is very sensitive. I get strong sensations and emotions of voices and often feel voice energy inside the body (get vibrations also of bird song and in discos/gigs I can even get heart arythm due to bass sounds etc.) Not everybody feels it that way and people can sense things differently so we can’t trust our senses, can we? It’s so individual and might also be wrong (for example I have been afraid of spiders before and have had A few situations, when I believed to see A spider somewhere and was chocked but realized soon it was something else - but when I wrote this, I noticed it was my interpretation of the sight that got it wrong, not my vision sense...).

[Anastacia42]

Thank you for sharing these, Sinnu. Addressing this is important. Let's look directly.

You wrote that

I can get deeply into the feelings for hours - even days.

First, who is it that "can get deeply into the feelings?"

Can you point to this person?

Don't give philosophy or theory. Not the thoughts. Not the interpretations. Just actual experience.

Check. Look. Actually see what is there.

This may take some time. Hours and days, as you say.


Second, you say

deeply into these feelings

but what sensations are there? When you actually go into them, what is there? Again, don't give me philosophy or theory. Not thoughts or interpretation.

NOTE: there is a difference between emotions and sensations. We use the word feelings for both, but that isn't accurate enough for this. Emotions are the interpretation of sensation. We are looking for direct body experience. Not the interpretations.

anxiety, anger & sorrow

Are interpretations and require thoughts.

Check your actual direct experience as you have done before.

This is not our usual way of being.

We are used to accepting that we feel something and accepting the interpretation of our thinking without question.

Here we are questioning everything.

It may be useful to make a list of things that bodies can sense in order to help stay focused on just sensations. For example, temperature, pressure, weight ... what else? Without interpretation.

I understand that i

This is not about what some "I" understands.

It may take some time to pause the habit of thinking and interpreting and pay attention only to what is there. We will stay with this until it is clear.

You're doing great. Stay with it. Keep bringing up anything that is not direct experience so that we can question it and find the direct experience.

Much love,

[Sinnu]

You wrote that

I can get deeply into the feelings for hours - even days.

First, who is it that "can get deeply into the feelings?"

Can you point to this person?

Will explore this more but I have to say right away that there’s no one there to be found - it’s only thoughts about imaginery me and my past (= more thoughts), feelings and the situation that all together keep the process alive, feed more sensations and feelings and thoughts and so on... But there’s no me there, because ’I’ is always just another thought, I can never point it for anyone, it’s only ”alive” in my thoughts when I have ’I’ thoughts.

Second, you say

deeply into these feelings

but what sensations are there? When you actually go into them, what is there? Again, don't give me philosophy or theory. Not thoughts or interpretation

.

For example tightness in throat, heaviness and pressure in chest, heart jumping fast, tingling in hands & feet, tears in eyes etc. I interpret these sensations as anxiety, anger and sorrow = thoughts.

Thank you for your help and guidance, I really appreciate it A lot!

Love,
Sinnu

[Sinnu]

At the moment I also feel heart jumping fast and feel A bit breathless and heaviness in chest even if only sitting on A sofa and everything is fine. I feel these sensations but notice that I don’t know how to interpret them — if it is this writing about difficult things (= that mind analyzes to be difficult) that makes these feelings (= labell ”anxiety”) or if it’s something else (for example the late meal I just ate, food and especially carbohydrates can cause same kind of sensations in body. Interesting! 🤔

[Anastacia42]

Beautiful. Yes, keep going.

Be as accurate and honest as possible. Describe only what is actually there.

Love,
Stacy

[Sinnu]

Hi,

Some new perceptions here:

I woke up early this morning but stayed in bed for some time. I often had thoughts, that now I get off the bed but nothing happened - thoughts couldn’t get me up, I noticed. But then suddenly I got off the bed, and didn’t notice any thought about it. So doings just happen, there might be thoughts about it or not, but eventually it’s not thoughts that make things happen, they just happen.

But how about sensations and feelings in the body? It feels that thoughts can make feelings arise, can’t feel it to be some other way... Is there something to see closer?

And if the idea is to concentrate on actual experiences so what about all the facts we know about world? For example I watched sunset yesterday and the view looks like the sun just disappears in the horizon but it’s not true...

- Sinnu-

[Sinnu]

It happened many times today that ”bad” thoughts (= thoughts about past & certain people, that other thoughts claim to be bad) popped up, they were listened and taken seriously, emotions arose and it became one big Mess for A while. Then the awareness came in (by another thought) and stopped the process. This takes some time when the body is already reacting and big stories are runnin. This process continued little by little to different and suddenly all these ”bad” thoughts were gone and couldn’t be experienced anymore... Before the next time. 😁 Can’t believe how many thoughts there always is: thoughts about past & people, thoughts that keep ”I” alive, thought judging other thoughts & blaiming, thoughts telling about bodyreactions, interpreting sensations... and finaly thoughts about consciousness and so on... And know thoughts tell it’s exhausting with all this thoughts, thoughts must stop - How insane is that? 😁

[Anastacia42]

Yes! You are very welcome.

You asked a couple of questions. When you see no self, no doer, no controller, you will be able to answer these questions yourself. My answers, advice or ideas will not help you. Pointing you back to direct experience, over and over again will. Remember, too, that will be only a beginning. There will be much to notice about what is real.

These below are direct experience, things that do not go away whether or not you believe in them:

tightness in throat, heaviness and pressure in chest, heart jumping fast, tingling in hands & feet, tears in eyes etc.

heart jumping fast and feel A bit breathless and heaviness in chest

What is different when you notice just the sensations, look for them behind the interpretations?

Sensations like...

soft texture of porridge...warm sensation in the chest was felt ... tightness... cold air was felt...

In reality there is just seeing the sight, no boundaries and separate objects. If I look without words/ thoughts/ understanding there’s only colours and shapes.

You noticed that no one decided to get out of bed.

then suddenly I got off the bed, and didn’t notice any thought about it. So doings just happen

What about thinking? Can you predict your next thought? Do you know what it will be before it happens? Or is there just thinking happening?

What about sensations (without interpretation)? Do you control that? Can you predict the next sensation?

Spend some time. Describe these. Be as accurate as possible, 100% honest. This may mean no "I" or "me" is written.

Much love,
Stacy

[Sinnu]

Hi there,

I can’t predict my next thought or sensation. They just appear, are noticed/felt and thoughts interpret them. Sensations are what they are, same for too much sugar and word anxiety.

Last night there was self talk and imaginery discussions going on in thoughts, when this experiencing and living part of life (try to avoid word ’I’ 😁) got the image in mind about myself, I. In this image there was like running drops that included different descriptions of me, just running down and then disappearing. And behind them, nothing! That image/thought really blew the mind - I’m nothing more than ideas, labels, words = thoughts. It was so obvious, what an eye opening short moment! Ever since that ecperience it’s easy to bring this realisation to every moment where needed. I’m nothing, nobody is nothing, there are only thoughts and sense perceptions. That’s it, so clear but it took some time to really see it, needed this inner image to show it.

[Anastacia42]

Very interesting image. Can you say more about the direct experience that was described as

running drops that included different descriptions of me, just running down and then disappearing. And behind them, nothing! That image/thought really blew the mind

How is it today?

Much love,