seeing not just intellectualizing

[tissetatten]

Hey

Are you saying something in your thoughts ?

More a dissinterenst and wishing i wasnt there or alone.

When this is said out loud, it is also saying something about what you think of the other person.
What might that be ?

I guess maybe imature, and shallow a bit boaring even. And i think they have so much more if they dig a bit.

If you hear what their communication beneath the words is, you may have a different response. (or not)

I feel like its the persons ego talking. Trying to assert it self all the time. Hearing insecuraty speak trying to make it sound like something els.



/T

[vinceschubert]

Good evening T,

i think they have so much more if they dig a bit.

You're no doubt right. ...but that's not the issue here. Your response is.
An awake person accepts, surrenders to, whatever life serves up, and those still asleep live in a fantasy world where stories of how things should be, or even could be stimulate their emotions.
Have you given any thought to this yet ?

I feel like its the persons ego talking. Trying to assert it self all the time.

Yes, it probably is this. So where is your compassion for yourself when you do this ? (your version of this)
My heart goes out to you, as you seem to think that you are superior to them.
What is it that makes you better than them ?

love (sincerely)

vince

[tissetatten]

Hey

An awake person accepts, surrenders to, whatever life serves up, and those still asleep live in a fantasy world where stories of how things should be, or even could be stimulate their emotions.
Have you given any thought to this yet ?

Well ofcorse i have but a description is not a prescription and im not going to try to act awakened. I have preferenses, likes and dislikes. I cant magicaly just say everythings is equally fun or interesting to me.

Yes, it probably is this. So where is your compassion for yourself when you do this ? (your version of this)
My heart goes out to you, as you seem to think that you are superior to them.
What is it that makes you better than them ?

I am actually learning from there behaviour. Because these are my best friends, we have a lot of the same interests and issues. So the advice i give to them is actually vadil for me as well. Or maybe even more so. They make things clearer. But because they make it so obviusly clear it seems like they have a bigger problem. But maybe thats not the case maybe its just this way so i see it easier and learn.


And ofcorse im more important my experiance is all i know. If i die the world might die with me who knows, this might all be in my head
/T

[tissetatten]

Hey again wanna know something funny?

I was on my way home when i wrote to u "who knows the world might end when i die"

Soon as i got home i had som sort of newpaper from the local church (not my thing i never go) Anyway i opened it randomly and in big letters as a title to page it sayd "Life after you"

Haha that is funny..

[vinceschubert]

Good evening T,

I was on my way home when i wrote to u "who knows the world might end when i die"
Soon as i got home i had som sort of newpaper from the local church (not my thing i never go) Anyway i opened it randomly and in big letters as a title to page it sayd "Life after you"

i'd call that serendipity. ..and look for a message in it.
Perhaps, I/you refer to self. That is the notion of an actual self.
If that dies and we recognize that all there ever was, was a complicated and detailed story of a self. One that was believed. ..then we are a big step closer to what is real. (reality ?)

I have preferences, likes and dislikes.

Of course. ..and when you are awakened, you will still have them. (although they might be a little different)

a description is not a prescription and im not going to try to act awakened.

..and i would never want you to fake it. ..but here's the thing. Realizing that what you are seeking is already present, and has always been so, that isn't faking it.
It might feel like it for a while, but that will fade with familiarity.
You have all of the intellectual stuff. Now it just needs to filter down into the body.
Of course, there's nothing that you can DO to make this happen.
If the intention arises to allow change to happen, then that is (possibly) one of the conditions necessary.
If determination to resist change happens...

love

vince

[tissetatten]

If determination to resist change happens

Resist what?
To follow my thoughts?


Lately iv been bussy with schoolwork.

My relative from germany sent me the email about his story. He suffered a lot from guilt and shame and stuff related to sex and having comunist parnets and lack of spiritual understanding in his family. He had dreams within dreams and a lot of weird experiances, seen entetys and things that have frightened him. He was looking for answers in the occult and later in teachers like jiddu. I dont ŕeally understand what happened to him, he just explaned that he was told how jesus died for our sins and something happened in his dried up heart. He was out one clowdy day (he doesnt like clowdy days the effect him) and all of a sudden he started to cry (like a child for his parent i thibk he said or something) and all of a sudden he felt this peace come in to his heart that has stayed and flowed with him ever since. He talks about sin like hindues talk about karma, he says the door to the kingdom of heaven cant be opened fom earth. He sent me a digital christian book, he said read it and may god have mercy on you.


So im still not clear on what happened to him or what awakening that is. But he did talk about having a spirtual ego and he did mention watching his mind and heart, but still the whole thing is unclear to me. Iv never read anything christan (maybe because its to close to home and iv grown up with the wrong idea and role modles for it)
So its been unapealing to me.


Lately iv feelt unmotivated for this, it doesnt feel like im doing anything to wake up. I dont care about the shark pic, seeing it or not wont make a difference.


/T

[vinceschubert]

Good evening T,

Resist what?
To follow my thoughts?

To resist changing. To be determined to stay the same.
Yes, following your thoughts... Where have they led you in the past.
You believe that your thoughts are an accurate representation of what is real, instead of accepting that they are a biased interpretation of that.
Of course, this doesn't mean that you abandon your thoughts as being always wrong. Just that you allow that they could be.

I dont care about the shark pic, seeing it or not wont make a difference.

This is a classic example.
Do you think that i have hounded you to keep looking for no reason ?
Do you think that i think that it won't make a difference ?
You're a fake. If you won't persevere in looking for the shark, how in the world can you say that you are prepared persevere with waking up ?
Oh, i know (think) that you believe that you will never be able to see the shark. Do you also believe that you will never become liberated ?
..or have you taken the pop spirituality stance of saying "perhaps next lifetime." ?
It's good that you are touching on despair.
This allows you to abandon care. To allow the body to dominate, instead of the controlling mind.
Keep looking at the shark pic, even with the hopelessness of it.
i promise you that the discovery of a grainy shark sitting in front of a backdrop will lead you into other discoveries.
Discoveries about how you are holding on to staying the same, even in the midst of protesting that you want enlightenment.
You don't need to put a lot of time, and certainly no effort into this. Just a few minutes each day (and another few minutes posting here)

about his story.

Yes, it doesn't seem that there is anything of value in it for us.

enjoy your despair (seriously)

love

vince

[tissetatten]

I have actually changed. A lot even, even if u cant tell.
But thats not really the point is it? Working on a person that doesnt exist.

"Fake"?

Fake what?
Person? Seeker?
I dont know why this feels hurtful but it does.

[tissetatten]

Holy crap i saw the shark.

I just gave up.
I even said to myself "grace help me because i cant do it, i cant see it on my own"

[vinceschubert]

Good evening T,

I don't know why this feels hurtful but it does.

Can you recognize that the hurt felt, is a conditioned reflex to defend a self.

"Fake"?

i was prodding you as you were saying on one hand that you want to wake up, but here you were about to give up. (my interpretation/story)

Holy crap, I saw the shark.
I gave up....

Grab that feeling !
Waking up will (probably) be the same.
When giving up, the feeling of not caring, takes you out of mind control.
This allows the conditioned filters to drop.
Do the same with enlightenment.
Stop seeking for some magical happening. Stop seeking. Give up.
What you were seeking, is already present. It always was.
What it is is exactly what you have. ..or more accurately, all that you experience, is IT !
Have no preferences (unless you do - and if so, they are IT too)
As the totality of what is real = your current experiencing, and everything else is concept, then total surrender to THIS, is the choiceless choice.
THIS IS IT!
Surrender. It's wonder full.

love

vince

[tissetatten]

Hey...

It happened.

I see it now.
It really is just a change in perseption.
There were no fireworks, no kundalini explosion, im not sitting in lotus blissed out having visions of krishna, jesus or buddha. Im not invisable, i dont have superpowers, i cant read minds.
I do however see now that "i" was just genetcs, dna and my conditioning up till now and that determens the way i act acording to the circumstans i find myself in. "I" littrely have no choice but to act as programmed.
I dont belive im my mind because I have no idea what its going to think in 5 minutes. I cant even turn it of to go to sleep so clearly its not me because i cant controle it.
Not only that it argues with itself like its atleast two ppl. One thought comes up thats not very nice then an other thought comes up (with my conditioning) correcting the first thought (thats not me). My contractions in the stomach have lessened too, something has relaxed, and i dont get as uppset. I know that other ppl are the same. They dont controle there acctions, there just conditioning, there is nothing to take personaly, so its hard to get mad. No one is doing anything to no one. I still have to work to let all of this to intergrate and settle more. The concepts i heard now make perfect sence, there not strage riddles there just description of what is. Im being lived. Everything is as it was before, i gave up on finding the answers to stuff that no can answer how did life start? How did we get here, what happens after deth. There are no answers just speculations. There is no past its in my head same with future, only now.



Thanx for everything Vince, ill be gone for a while now again. See what happens whith this. Dont know when ill write again. <3

[vinceschubert]

Fantastic, Terrific, Great !
Hi T, i love the sound of this. Yes, integration will take a while, but with your new found perspective, that is just life-ing happening. It is what it is.
For some people, heading off on their own, at this point of awakening, there is the possibility of the old conditioning reasserting, or the possibility of incompleteness resulting in an existential black hole (nihilism).
As you have always been, pretty much a loner, and knowing your understanding, and your previous experiences, i don't have any concerns for you in these areas.
The usual procedure at this point is that i join you to some facebook groups where you can converse with others that have newly gated (passed through the gateless gate). Let me know if you are interested in this.
Regardless, i am/will be available to you, if you encounter any issues.
Although i am closing my Facebook account because they are two faced (haha) i can be reached on https://plus.google.com/u/0/108145395282161253703 or https://www.minds.com/vinceschubert or http://twitter.com/vinceschubert (or i will happily PM my email address to you)

love

vince

[tissetatten]

Thank you <3

Maybe u can add me to the facebook group, dont know how active ill be but i can check it out.

I saved ur info.

[tissetatten]

Do u need my facebook name or do u have a link to the group? How does it work?

<3

[vinceschubert]

Hmm. i would have thought that Admin would have contacted you by now. (maybe check your PM inbox)
Ok, what is your facebook name ? (PM me with it if you like)

vince