Ready to wake up

[bluecat18]

Hi Kay,

How is it known that there are sound waves?

Science tells us. To me it is an idea.

If the actual experience of colour labelled "forest/trees" is not appearing in the present moment, how is it known that there is a forest with trees?

It is known as an idea/thought.

Sit quietly, close the eyes, take in a couple of deep breaths to settle the dust and then listen to the sounds in the room where you are, or sounds from outside. Then when ready just choose one sound and pay attention to that one sound only.

1) In 'hearing' can anything be found, other than the AE of sound? ('what can be heard')?

No

2) Can what is doing the hearing be found? Or is there only AE sound?

No-one is doing the hearing.

3) Can an 'I', 'ear', 'body', 'person' be found? Or are these statements thoughts about an 'I', 'ear', 'body', 'person'?

Didn't find anything. Hearing happens in "space".

Look very carefully. Where does 'hearing' end and sound begin? Can a dividing line between 'hearer' and sound be found? Or is there just hearer/sound?
Can a 'hearer' ever be found in 'what is being heard' - AE sound?
If that is all, and no INHERENT HEARER is found . . . would anything that is suggested as the hearer be anything other than speculation / ideas / beliefs / thoughts etc?

Hearing, sound, reaction to the sound happens together, there is no line between them. It is a same happening. Sound was not heard only by an ear, it was "heard"/" felt" throughout the body. There is no hearer, only awareness of a sound/hearing. There is resistance to this answer. Thoughts tell me that there has to be an "I" to hear. But there is no-one to be found.

Great! So look very carefully again. Where does sensation end and feeling begin? Can a dividing line be found between 'feeler' and sensation? Or are they one and the same?

Could not find a line between those two. They happen together.

Nice! So, then if you cannot choose what thoughts appear, how is it you can choose what actions to do or not do?

Thought/idea tells me that I chose this or that action. But haven't yet found any action that was chosen by a "me".

Tell me what the confusion is about?

The confusion between what I see when I look and how I am used to think things are. Thoughts argue about everything and they tell me that I'm going to wrong direction with this looking. It would be better to me to just keep on believing in things the way that is familiar to me. And they tell me that I cannot live life without "me".

Bluecat

[forgetmenot]

Hello Bluecat,

How is it known that there are sound waves?

Science tells us. To me it is an idea.

What is the AE of soundwaves?
What is the AE of science?

And where is this “me” who thinks it is an idea? Describe this “me” in precise detail.

If the actual experience of colour labelled "forest/trees" is not appearing in the present moment, how is it known that there is a forest with trees?

It is known as an idea/thought.

Yes, exactly. So in actual experience there is no forest or tree falling unless the AE of colour and sound are appearing.

Sit quietly, close the eyes, take in a couple of deep breaths to settle the dust and then listen to the sounds in the room where you are, or sounds from outside. Then when ready just choose one sound and pay attention to that one sound only.

3) Can an 'I', 'ear', 'body', 'person' be found? Or are these statements thoughts about an 'I', 'ear', 'body', 'person'?

Didn't find anything. Hearing happens in "space".

And “space” is just an appearance as well. If “space” was something permanent, it would not come and go, it would always be.

If that is all, and no INHERENT HEARER is found . . . would anything that is suggested as the hearer be anything other than speculation / ideas / beliefs / thoughts etc?

Hearing, sound, reaction to the sound happens together, there is no line between them. It is a same happening.

What reaction to sound? Can you tell me more about this reaction please.

Sound was not heard only by an ear, it was "heard"/" felt" throughout the body.

If you did not find an ear, body or person hearing the sound, then how can the sound not only be heard by an ear but heard throughout the body?

Go back to the hand on table exercise. Was a hand found in that exercise or only sensation? If only sensation, then how is the sound heard/felt throughout the body?

There is no hearer, only awareness of a sound/hearing. There is resistance to this answer. Thoughts tell me that there has to be an "I" to hear. But there is no-one to be found.

So there is thought and you? Where is this you that thought is telling stories to?
Where does the knowing of thought end and the thought begin?

Resistance is impossible, how can what already is be resisted? It is only an appearing thought that says “I am resisting ………”. Thoughts are actual experience (AE) and either point to actual experience or thought stories.

Can a sensation or thought be resisted? What is it exactly that is resisting?

Great! So look very carefully again. Where does sensation end and feeling begin? Can a dividing line be found between 'feeler' and sensation? Or are they one and the same?

Could not find a line between those two. They happen together.

What do you mean when you say they “happen together”?

Nice! So, then if you cannot choose what thoughts appear, how is it you can choose what actions to do or not do?

Thought/idea tells me that I chose this or that action. But haven't yet found any action that was chosen by a "me".

Have a look and see if you can find that “me” that thought are telling thoughts/ideas to. Can you find a “me” in thoughts themselves, in colour, in sensation, in smell, in taste, in sound? If not, where is this “me”?

Tell me what the confusion is about?

The confusion between what I see when I look and how I am used to think things are. Thoughts argue about everything and they tell me that I'm going to wrong direction with this looking. It would be better to me to just keep on believing in things the way that is familiar to me. And they tell me that I cannot live life without "me".

So confusion is showing up in the show that is never confused about what shows up in it.

Do thoughts really argue with an illusory ‘you’….illusory meaning non-existent separate self. A separate self that has never been, ever. Or is there another appearing thought that says that thought is arguing with a “me”?

Is there a you who is the author/owner/thinker of thought?
Is there a you who can choose and pick what thoughts to have and when?
Is there a you who can control thoughts in any way?

Love, Kay

[bluecat18]

Hi Kay,

What is the AE of soundwaves?
What is the AE of science?

All that is known of them is an idea.

And where is this "me" who thinks it is an idea? Describe this "me" in precise detail.

I used the word "me" to describe that there was nothing else in actual experience to know about science except an idea. There is no me to be found, only a thought.

What reaction to sound? Can you tell me more about this reaction please.

The sensation in the "body" when there is a sound.

If you did not find an ear, body or person hearing the sound, then how can the sound not only be heard by an ear but heard throughout the body?

The body is a label to sensations that are being perceived.

Go back to the hand on table exercise. Was a hand found in that exercise or only sensation? If only sensation, then how is the sound heard/felt throughout the body?

Only sensation was found not a hand or a body. I was using the word "body" as a label.

So there is thought and you? Where is this you that thought is telling stories to?
Where does the knowing of thought end and the thought begin?

There is something that is aware of the thought. There seems to be more interest in a certain type of thoughts than others. Or some thoughts are "louder" than others. The knowing of thought and the thought are the same happening.

Can a sensation or thought be resisted? What is it exactly that is resisting?

It is again another thought that tells that there is resisting. There might be a sensation and a thought labels that as a resistance.

Great! So look very carefully again. Where does sensation end and feeling begin? Can a dividing line be found between 'feeler' and sensation? Or are they one and the same?

Could not find a line between those two. They happen together.

What do you mean when you say they "happen together"?

I mean that there is just this one thing happening. I cannot separate feeler from sensation.

Have a look and see if you can find that "me" that thought are telling thoughts/ideas to. Can you find a "me" in thoughts themselves, in colour, in sensation, in smell, in taste, in sound? If not, where is this "me"?

"I" cannot be found in those things because "I" am aware of those things. So "I" am something that is aware. It feels like this awareness is everywhere.

Do thoughts really argue with an illusory 'you'….illusory meaning non-existent separate self. A separate self that has never been, ever. Or is there another appearing thought that says that thought is arguing with a "me"?

There is just thoughts arising. I closed my eyes to look for answer to this question. There was a thought that now I have to look at thoughts. Then eyes opened and looked around the room an closed again. A thought came "you are doing this wrong. Eyes should be closed." Great example of thought arguing with no-one. :D

Is there a you who is the author/owner/thinker of thought?
Is there a you who can choose and pick what thoughts to have and when?
Is there a you who can control thoughts in any way?

Thoughts just arise on their own. There is no-one to control or choose them.

Bluecat

[forgetmenot]

Hi Bluecat,

What is the AE of soundwaves?
What is the AE of science?

All that is known of them is an idea.

Yes, they are simply the actual appearance of thought and when looking, only point to thoughts about thought and are pointing to nothing other than AE of thought!

And where is this "me" who thinks it is an idea? Describe this "me" in precise detail.

I used the word "me" to describe that there was nothing else in actual experience to know about science except an idea. There is no me to be found, only a thought.

It is my role to keep pointing and to check to see that what responses are made are clear. It may seem like overkill, but it is done for your benefit, not mine :)

What reaction to sound? Can you tell me more about this reaction please.

The sensation in the "body" when there is a sound.

Does sound create the sensation in the body?

If you did not find an ear, body or person hearing the sound, then how can the sound not only be heard by an ear but heard throughout the body?

The body is a label to sensations that are being perceived.

The label ‘body’ is AE of thought and not the AE of a body
The sensation labelled ‘body’ is AE of sensation and not a body.

Sensations don’t point to a body, thought may, but that does not make the sensations a body.

When sensations appear ‘in the body’, does a thought appear saying “I am feeling body” or do they generally label the sensations as “I am feeling fear”, or “I am feeling excited” etc?

Go back to the hand on table exercise. Was a hand found in that exercise or only sensation? If only sensation, then how is the sound heard/felt throughout the body?

Only sensation was found not a hand or a body. I was using the word "body" as a label.

What is the AE of a ‘body’?

So there is thought and you? Where is this you that thought is telling stories to?
Where does the knowing of thought end and the thought begin?

There is something that is aware of the thought. There seems to be more interest in a certain type of thoughts than others. Or some thoughts are "louder" than others. The knowing of thought and the thought are the same happening.

"Awareness" is not a thing. It is a concept that describes the process of thoughts arising about the thoughts that arise. It seems that there is something aware, however is there experience and an experience of awareness of experience? If so, that means that there is experience and something that is aware of experience which = separation.

Can a dividing line be found between ‘experiencer’ and experience? In other words, is there a noticer of that which is noticed?

Let’s check out the idea of a witness…an ‘awarer’.
With eyes closed, there is the experience of 'blackness'. There may a bright light, a red glow, sparkly bits or cloudy flecks appearing and disappearing - It really doesn't matter about the specifics. We are simply noticing ‘blackness’.

1) With eyes closed, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'blackness'?
2) Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'blackness'?
3) Can what is being aware of the blackness be found?
4) Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', a person be found that is aware of the blackness? Or is there just 'blackness' to be found?
What do you find?

Can a sensation or thought be resisted? What is it exactly that is resisting?

It is again another thought that tells that there is resisting. There might be a sensation and a thought labels that as a resistance.

Yes, the AE of resistance is thought, it is not the AE of sensation.

Does the sensation itself, suggest in any way that it is resistance, or that it is resisting, or knows anything about resistance?

When you think you find "resistance", try to define what it is that is being "resisted", and what it is that is doing the "resisting".

Great! So look very carefully again. Where does sensation end and feeling begin? Can a dividing line be found between 'feeler' and sensation? Or are they one and the same?

Could not find a line between those two. They happen together.

What do you mean when you say they "happen together"

I mean that there is just this one thing happening. I cannot separate feeler from sensation.

Yes, exactly. And when you look carefully at this…that the ‘feeler’ and the sensation are one and the same, what do you see?

Do thoughts really argue with an illusory 'you'….illusory meaning non-existent separate self. A separate self that has never been, ever. Or is there another appearing thought that says that thought is arguing with a "me"?

There is just thoughts arising. I closed my eyes to look for answer to this question. There was a thought that now I have to look at thoughts. Then eyes opened and looked around the room an closed again. A thought came "you are doing this wrong. Eyes should be closed." Great example of thought arguing with no-one. :D

LOL yes! Great example! :)

Love, Kay

[bluecat18]

Hi Kay,

It is my role to keep pointing and to check to see that what responses are made are clear. It may seem like overkill, but it is done for your benefit, not mine :)

This is one reason why I wanted to start this process. So I would be forced to look deeper and more clearly. I can be a bit "lazy" in the looking sometimes, not intentionally, but because I don't realize that there is still something "more real" ;)

Does sound create the sensation in the body?

It feels like the same kind of phenomena as the hand on the table. There is sound and there is sensation as in one happening. Thought tells that the sound is a cause and the sensation is an effect.

What is the AE of a 'body'?

There are sensations and colour, and a thought tells that they are a "body" and are happening to a "me".

Can a dividing line be found between 'experiencer' and experience? In other words, is there a noticer of that which is noticed?

Cannot find a line. There seems to be just noticing happening.

Let's check out the idea of a witness…an 'awarer'.
With eyes closed, there is the experience of 'blackness'. There may a bright light, a red glow, sparkly bits or cloudy flecks appearing and disappearing - It really doesn't matter about the specifics. We are simply noticing 'blackness'.

1) With eyes closed, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'blackness'?

Yes

2) Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'blackness'?

No

3) Can what is being aware of the blackness be found?

No

4) Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', a person be found that is aware of the blackness? Or is there just 'blackness' to be found?
What do you find?

There was a feeling that there had to be a witness. But it was just another idea of me, now as the "awareness". There was just blackness "blacknessing" :) Something was released seeing this.

Does the sensation itself, suggest in any way that it is resistance, or that it is resisting, or knows anything about resistance?

The sensation just is. It knows nothing about resistance. Thought just comes so quickly that they are hard to separate

When you think you find "resistance", try to define what it is that is being "resisted", and what it is that is doing the "resisting".

First there was a thought resisting what was happening, wanting things to be different, then there was a sensation and another thought telling that this is resistance and more thoughts about this. When I looked the thoughts soon stopped. Sensation stayed longer.

Yes, exactly. And when you look carefully at this…that the 'feeler' and the sensation are one and the same, what do you see?

That there actually is not a feeler. Just sensation happening.

Yesterday as I was driving I was looking for the doer. The thought "I am driving" was hilarious, because I felt that I had nothing to do with the car being driven. Laughed till so hard at this :D

Bluecat

[forgetmenot]

Hey Bluecat,

It is my role to keep pointing and to check to see that what responses are made are clear. It may seem like overkill, but it is done for your benefit, not mine :)

This is one reason why I wanted to start this process. So I would be forced to look deeper and more clearly. I can be a bit "lazy" in the looking sometimes, not intentionally, but because I don't realize that there is still something "more real" ;)

Never fear…I will certainly keep you on your toes! ;) :D

Does sound create the sensation in the body?

It feels like the same kind of phenomena as the hand on the table. There is sound and there is sensation as in one happening. Thought tells that the sound is a cause and the sensation is an effect.

Okay, so a thought appears saying that sound has caused the sensation. So, thought points to sensation and calls it a body. Is there an actual body, and if not then what exactly is feeling the sensation or hearing the sound?

What is the AE of a 'body'?

There are sensations and colour, and a thought tells that they are a "body" and are happening to a "me".

Yes, so the AE of a ‘body’ is thought. A sensation is simply a sensation and colour is simply colour, neither have anything to do with a body.

For every thought that comes up, and to determine whether it is referring to actual experience or whether it is pure fantasy, replace the thought with “blahblahblah” and check whether what it was referring to remains.

For example, a thought appears saying “that sound created this sensation in my body”. Does that thought contain any sound , sensation or body? Replace that thought with “blahblahblah” and what remains?

Can a dividing line be found between 'experiencer' and experience? In other words, is there a noticer of that which is noticed?

Cannot find a line. There seems to be just noticing happening.

Lovely, yes. Noticing is happening, but can an entity of any description be found that is doing the noticing?

Let's check out the idea of a witness…an 'awarer'.
With eyes closed, there is the experience of 'blackness'. There may a bright light, a red glow, sparkly bits or cloudy flecks appearing and disappearing - It really doesn't matter about the specifics. We are simply noticing 'blackness'.

1) With eyes closed, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'blackness'?
Yes
2) Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'blackness'?
No
3) Can what is being aware of the blackness be found?
No
4) Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', a person be found that is aware of the blackness? Or is there just 'blackness' to be found?
What do you find?

There was a feeling that there had to be a witness. But it was just another idea of me, now as the "awareness". There was just blackness "blacknessing" :) Something was released seeing this.

Lovely! So no noticer of noticing was found!

Okay, so do the exercise again and answer the following:- After looking at the blackness....Open the eyes....

Is there a difference between the ‘blackness’ when eyes are closed and ‘colour’ when eyes are open or are they both simply the appearance of colour?

Does the sensation itself, suggest in any way that it is resistance, or that it is resisting, or knows anything about resistance?

The sensation just is. It knows nothing about resistance. Thought just comes so quickly that they are hard to separate

Yes exactly! Does resistance indicate that there is such an entity as a resister?

When you think you find "resistance", try to define what it is that is being "resisted", and what it is that is doing the "resisting".

First there was a thought resisting what was happening, wanting things to be different, then there was a sensation and another thought telling that this is resistance and more thoughts about this. When I looked the thoughts soon stopped. Sensation stayed longer.

Lovely. Here is a perfect place to use the “blahblahblah” looking!

Replace the thought “I am resisting……..” with the thought “blahblahblah” and what remains?

Yes, exactly. And when you look carefully at this…that the 'feeler' and the sensation are one and the same, what do you see?

That there actually is not a feeler. Just sensation happening.

Right. Experience is appearing as sensation, not the other way round.
So is there a dividing line between experience and experience, or are they one and the same. Is what is ‘knowing’ of the sensation separate to the sensation (known) itself? LOOK carefully at this.

Yesterday as I was driving I was looking for the doer. The thought "I am driving" was hilarious, because I felt that I had nothing to do with the car being driven. Laughed till so hard at this :D

What a great realisation, Bluecat! You will begin to see more and more how humourous it all is! :) You are doing a great job of looking...it is such a pleasure to guide you :)

Love, Kay

[bluecat18]

Hi Kay,

Is there an actual body, and if not then what exactly is feeling the sensation or hearing the sound?

There is no actual body. Sensation is felt and sound is heard by no-one or no-thing. This brought feeling of sadness and tears. Like I had to say goodbye to something. After that there was just peace.

For example, a thought appears saying "that sound created this sensation in my body". Does that thought contain any sound , sensation or body? Replace that thought with "blahblahblah" and what remains?

Thought contains nothing it is just a thought. When replaced with "blahblahblah" sensation and sound remains. Just the commenting stops.

Lovely, yes. Noticing is happening, but can an entity of any description be found that is doing the noticing?

No entity doing the noticing is found. Also noticing doesn't happen to anyone. There is no need for a separate entity. Just things happening for no-one and by no-one.

Okay, so do the exercise again and answer the following:- After looking at the blackness....Open the eyes....

Is there a difference between the 'blackness' when eyes are closed and 'colour' when eyes are open or are they both simply the appearance of colour?

They are both simply colour appearing.

Does resistance indicate that there is such an entity as a resister?

There is no resister. No-one is choosing to resist or not to resist.

Replace the thought "I am resisting…….." with the thought "blahblahblah" and what remains?

Just the sensation, no trace of resisting.

So is there a dividing line between experience and experience, or are they one and the same. Is what is 'knowing' of the sensation separate to the sensation (known) itself? LOOK carefully at this.

The sensation is known as it is happening, there is no separation. Thought is causing the seeming division.

You will begin to see more and more how humourous it all is!

Well, today I there was sadness when it was seen that the "I" isn't needed ;)

You are doing a great job of looking...it is such a pleasure to guide you :)

Thank you, doing my best. I'm greatful to be guided by you :)

Bluecat

[forgetmenot]

Hey Bluecat,

Is there an actual body, and if not then what exactly is feeling the sensation or hearing the sound?

There is no actual body. Sensation is felt and sound is heard by no-one or no-thing. This brought feeling of sadness and tears. Like I had to say goodbye to something. After that there was just peace.

Thank you for sharing that with me, Bluecat. Mixed emotions such as sadness, anger, fear can come from a sense of loss and is natural when old beliefs start to fall away.

For example, a thought appears saying "that sound created this sensation in my body". Does that thought contain any sound , sensation or body? Replace that thought with "blahblahblah" and what remains?

Thought contains nothing it is just a thought. When replaced with "blahblahblah" sensation and sound remains. Just the commenting stops.

Yes, the commenting stops. So when replacing any thought with “blahblahblah” it takes you to the bare bones of what actually is, and not what thought says is.

Is there a difference between the 'blackness' when eyes are closed and 'colour' when eyes are open or are they both simply the appearance of colour?

They are both simply colour appearing.

Yes, there is simply colour appearing. Although you see that there is no noticer/observer/witness, there may still be the a feeling of identification of being the ‘doer’. That it still ‘feels’ like there is a self that is the ‘chooser’. So let’s have a look at this as it has to do with the sense of seeing.

We’ll do a little exercise on this topic. It has to do with the sense of seeing.

Take a few relaxed breaths to let the dust settle for a while, and then:
Look on your right.
Then look on your left.
Finally, bring your head back to centre, close your eyes and look in front.

Okay, so when you look on the right, the view on the right is seen (whatever that is).
When you look on the left, the view on the left is seen (whatever that is).
And then, when you look in front of you with eyes closed, the view in front is seen (ie black space).

So, when the view on the right is seen, do you have the ‘choice’ not to see? I’m not asking can you ‘choose’ to see something else like another view or black space if you close your eyes. The question is, can you turn seeing off? Can you NOT see what is seen?

Same thing with the view on the left, can you NOT see the view on the left?
Same thing with the view in front with closed eyes, can you NOT see the blank sky?
Can you turn off seeing?

What did the 'chooser' choose? Did a 'self' choose something?

If you can't choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?

Replace the thought "I am resisting…….." with the thought "blahblahblah" and what remains?

Just the sensation, no trace of resisting.

Lovely.

So is there a dividing line between experience and experience, or are they one and the same. Is what is 'knowing' of the sensation separate to the sensation (known) itself? LOOK carefully at this.

The sensation is known as it is happening, there is no separation. Thought is causing the seeming division.

Yes, no separation.
So is there really something that is knowing of the known, or it just simply IS?

You will begin to see more and more how humourous it all is!

Well, today I there was sadness when it was seen that the "I" isn't needed ;)

No controller of what may or may not appear in/as the dream. When looking at sadness…replace the thought “I isn’t needed” with “blahblahblah” and what remains….simply THIS/experience exactly as it is.

Love, Kay

[bluecat18]

Hi Kay,

So, when the view on the right is seen, do you have the 'choice' not to see? I'm not asking can you 'choose' to see something else like another view or black space if you close your eyes. The question is, can you turn seeing off? Can you NOT see what is seen?

I can't turn off the seeing. I just see what is seen.

Same thing with the view on the left, can you NOT see the view on the left?

No, I can not see what is seen here either.

Same thing with the view in front with closed eyes, can you NOT see the blank sky?
Can you turn off seeing?

Can't turn off the seeing, the blackness is seen.

What did the 'chooser' choose? Did a 'self' choose something?

There seemed to be choosing when the head turns and eyes close. But when looked deeper it felt more like there was "allowing" for the head to turn and eyes to close. Still there was no-one found doing the allowing. Seeing happened without chooser.

If you can't choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?

Spend a long time looking at this but I couldn't find anything that "I" can choose. Choosing happens and then a thought tells that I made this decision.

So is there really something that is knowing of the known, or it just simply IS?

I had to read this sentence many times, before understanding it (hopefully) right :)
Nothing knowing. Knowing just is.

Bluecat

[forgetmenot]

Hey Bluecat,

So, when the view on the right is seen, do you have the 'choice' not to see? I'm not asking can you 'choose' to see something else like another view or black space if you close your eyes. The question is, can you turn seeing off? Can you NOT see what is seen?

I can't turn off the seeing. I just see what is seen.

Look at whatever is in front of you. It is seen from the perspective of two windows (eyes) or is it like a windscreen view? Now zoom back in and try to find the thing that’s seeing. Is there seeing separate from what’s seen, or is there just what’s seen? Is there any awareness separate from experience or is there just experience?

Same thing with the view on the left, can you NOT see the view on the left?

No, I can not see what is seen here either.

So you cannot choose what you are aware/knowing of/as?

Same thing with the view in front with closed eyes, can you NOT see the blank sky?
Can you turn off seeing?

Can't turn off the seeing, the blackness is seen.

The blackness is seen or it simply IS? What is doing the seeing?
If it appears as if words are seen through looking with the eyes, eyes would be needed, right? What is actually known right now about eyes?

What did the 'chooser' choose? Did a 'self' choose something?

There seemed to be choosing when the head turns and eyes close.

Okay, close the eyes and start to turn the head. Ignore all thoughts and images about a head/neck/eyes turning and what is the actual experience?

Try this again with eyes open and what is the actual experience?
Can you see a head turning? How is it known that a head is turning?

Let’s examine the solidity of the head.

Press a finger down onto the top of the ‘head’.
Notice what is actually present.
Is it a head, or is it just a sensation labelled ‘pressure’ and a story ABOUT a head?

Do the same with a finger on each side of the head.
Is a head actually found, or are there just sensations again?
And is there anything between the pressure points?

So can a 'head turning' be found in actual experience?

But when looked deeper it felt more like there was "allowing" for the head to turn and eyes to close. Still there was no-one found doing the allowing. Seeing happened without chooser.

“it felt more like there was "allowing"”. Is this “feeling” and actual sensation or is it just and idea/thought? Can a sensation or thought choose anything?
What is the AE of “it felt more like there was "allowing"?

If you can't choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?

Spend a long time looking at this but I couldn't find anything that "I" can choose. Choosing happens and then a thought tells that I made this decision.

To what exactly is it that “a thought tells that I made this decision”. Are thoughts telling anyone/anything or they are just appearing? What does the thought point to? Does it point to actual experience or just further thoughts about thoughts/nothing?

Can thought choose?
Can sensation choose?
Can sound choose?
Can colour choose?
Can taste choose?
Can smell choose?
If not, then what exactly is choosing or allowing for that matter?!

So is there really something that is knowing of the known, or it just simply IS?

I had to read this sentence many times, before understanding it (hopefully) right :)
Nothing knowing. Knowing just is.

Yes, knowing just is. Let’s examine this a little more closely so that you can see what is being pointed at.

Is not colour simply known? Is there anything that is knowing OF colour. Is colour ever not ‘seen’ and not known?
Can you find a border between the ‘knowing’ of colour and colour itself?
Where does seeing (knowing) end and colour (known) begin?
Or is knowing and known (knowingknown) one and the same?

Love, Kay

[bluecat18]

Hi Kay,

Look at whatever is in front of you. It is seen from the perspective of two windows (eyes) or is it like a windscreen view? Now zoom back in and try to find the thing that's seeing. Is there seeing separate from what's seen, or is there just what's seen? Is there any awareness separate from experience or is there just experience?

It is like a windscreen view. There is just what is seen. There is just experience. Awareness is an idea that comes after the experience. If I am aware of something, it must already be happening. It is just the opposite from what I have thought.

So you cannot choose what you are aware/knowing of/as?

No I cannot choose anything.

The blackness is seen or it simply IS?

The blackness is.

What is doing the seeing?

Without going to ideas, seeing just happens.

If it appears as if words are seen through looking with the eyes, eyes would be needed, right? What is actually known right now about eyes?

Sensations and thoughts/ideas about the eyes.

Okay, close the eyes and start to turn the head. Ignore all thoughts and images about a head/neck/eyes turning and what is the actual experience?

There were variable sensations.

Try this again with eyes open and what is the actual experience?

There were variable sensations and seeing.

Can you see a head turning? How is it known that a head is turning?

Cannot see a head turning. The view chances so it is known that the head is turning. Or is it just an idea?

Press a finger down onto the top of the 'head'.
Notice what is actually present.
Is it a head, or is it just a sensation labelled 'pressure' and a story ABOUT a head?

Just a sensation and a story.

Do the same with a finger on each side of the head.
Is a head actually found, or are there just sensations again?
And is there anything between the pressure points?

Just sensations. There was nothing to be found between the points.

So can a 'head turning' be found in actual experience?

No it cannot be found. There are just sensations.

"it felt more like there was "allowing"". Is this "feeling" and actual sensation or is it just and idea/thought?

It is a sensation of tension relaxing followed by an idea of "allowing".

Can a sensation or thought choose anything?

No

What is the AE of "it felt more like there was "allowing"?

Sensation and thought.

To what exactly is it that "a thought tells that I made this decision". Are thoughts telling anyone/anything or they are just appearing? What does the thought point to? Does it point to actual experience or just further thoughts about thoughts/nothing?

Thoughts just appear to no-one. The thought points to actual experience and to the "I" which is just more thoughts.

Can thought choose?
Can sensation choose?
Can sound choose?
Can colour choose?
Can taste choose?
Can smell choose?

None of these can choose.

If not, then what exactly is choosing or allowing for that matter?!

There is no choosing or allowing, things just happen.

Is not colour simply known? Is there anything that is knowing OF colour. Is colour ever not 'seen' and not known?
Can you find a border between the 'knowing' of colour and colour itself?
Where does seeing (knowing) end and colour (known) begin?
Or is knowing and known (knowingknown) one and the same?

Colour is just known. There is no border to be found between knowing and known. They are the same.

Bluecat

[forgetmenot]

Hello Bluecat,

Look at whatever is in front of you. It is seen from the perspective of two windows (eyes) or is it like a windscreen view? Now zoom back in and try to find the thing that's seeing. Is there seeing separate from what's seen, or is there just what's seen? Is there any awareness separate from experience or is there just experience?

It is like a windscreen view. There is just what is seen. There is just experience. Awareness is an idea that comes after the experience. If I am aware of something, it must already be happening. It is just the opposite from what I have thought.

Are you regarding thought as awareness? That it is only when thought appears about what is appearing then awareness is happening?

Since knowing/awareness and known/awared are one and the same (knowingknow/awarenessawared). Then how can you become aware of something after the fact? Can anything appear without you knowing of it?




Thought says that the yellow, orange and green areas are you, and thought also calls these colours your body. Thought also says that the other colours are objects, and the light brown areas are animals that have their own consciousness. Thought also says that there is something behind the door.

How is it known that there is something behind the door?

If it appears as if words are seen through looking with the eyes, eyes would be needed, right? What is actually known right now about eyes?

Sensations and thoughts/ideas about the eyes.

Yes, the AE of eyes is thought. Thought points to sensation and labels the sensation as eyes. Sensation is simply sensation. Sensation does not suggest in any way that it is eyes.

That's got to be Albert Einstein, right?



Notice that all that's actually present in the picture are some colours. That's all that's there, colour. Thought then labels these colours as hair, tongue, moustache, nose, eyes, eyebrows, mouth, ears, face and head and a story about this head being that of Albert Einsten.

Can you see that Einstein is 100% just a story? The body is a story in the same way.

Also notice that the thing which thought claims is your body doesn't even have a head!

Okay, close the eyes and start to turn the head. Ignore all thoughts and images about a head/neck/eyes turning and what is the actual experience?

There were variable sensations.

Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that it is “variable”? Or is there simply sensation which thoughts suggest is variable and belongs to a neck/head turning?

Try this again with eyes open and what is the actual experience?

There were variable sensations and seeing.

Is there variable “seeing” or is there simply colour?

Can you see a head turning? How is it known that a head is turning?

Cannot see a head turning. The view chances so it is known that the head is turning. Or is it just an idea?

You tell me. You did the neck/head turning exercise above and the head exercise below. What did you find?

Press a finger down onto the top of the 'head'.
Notice what is actually present.
Is it a head, or is it just a sensation labelled 'pressure' and a story ABOUT a head?

Just a sensation and a story.

So can a ‘head’ be found in actual experience?

So can a 'head turning' be found in actual experience?

No it cannot be found. There are just sensations.

Yes, there is simply sensation.

Is not colour simply known? Is there anything that is knowing OF colour. Is colour ever not 'seen' and not known?
Can you find a border between the 'knowing' of colour and colour itself?
Where does seeing (knowing) end and colour (known) begin?
Or is knowing and known (knowingknown) one and the same?

Colour is just known. There is no border to be found between knowing and known. They are the same.

Yes. So is there an ‘experiencer’ of experience?

Love, Kay

[bluecat18]

Hi Kay,

For some reason it seems that looking has been harder since yesterday. I cannot focus on actual experience like I did before. It feels like something is in the way.

Are you regarding thought as awareness? That it is only when thought appears about what is appearing then awareness is happening?

I'm not sure how to explain this… There is this awareness of or attention about what is happening, but what is happening is already happening. It doesn't need "me" to be aware of it. It seems like there is happening/knowing, then attention to it and then a thought.

Since knowing/awareness and known/awared are one and the same (knowingknow/awarenessawared). Then how can you become aware of something after the fact? Can anything appear without you knowing of it?

It seems that there is something more happening that I'm currently aware of. Attention is focused on writing these words. So I'm not aware of my legs for example. This confuses me.
To me awareness is a vague word. Knowing is better.

How is it known that there is something behind the door?

I have been there before = memory = thought. If the door is made of glass, there is seeing also.

Can you see that Einstein is 100% just a story? The body is a story in the same way.

It is easier to see Einstein as a story. But yes the body is a thought too.

Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that it is "variable"? Or is there simply sensation which thoughts suggest is variable and belongs to a neck/head turning?

Sensation does not suggest anything. There is just sensation + thoughts.

Is there variable "seeing" or is there simply colour?

No variable seeing just colour.

You tell me. You did the neck/head turning exercise above and the head exercise below. What did you find?

The "head turning" seems to be an idea. There is just colour seen.

So can a 'head' be found in actual experience?

No.

Yes. So is there an 'experiencer' of experience?

No experiencer found.

Bluecat

[forgetmenot]

Hey Bluecat,

For some reason it seems that looking has been harder since yesterday. I cannot focus on actual experience like I did before. It feels like something is in the way.

“It feels like something is in the way” is simply a thought. Can you actually find anything in the way? Can colour, thought, sound, sensation etc get in the way?

Are you regarding thought as awareness? That it is only when thought appears about what is appearing then awareness is happening?

I'm not sure how to explain this… There is this awareness of or attention about what is happening, but what is happening is already happening. It doesn't need "me" to be aware of it. It seems like there is happening/knowing, then attention to it and then a thought.

What exactly is it that can have “attention” drawn to what is happening? There is still the idea that there is a ‘me’ that is listening to a sound. Or a me that is seeing a bird, or a me that is feeling sensation.

Since you have not been able to find a border between, for example, where hearing ends and sound begins…then how can there be a something in between that is having attention drawn to the sound? Look and see if you can find this someone/something.

Can an experiencer of experience be found? In other words is there a 'knowing', 'knower' and 'known'?

Since knowing/awareness and known/awared are one and the same (knowingknow/awarenessawared). Then how can you become aware of something after the fact? Can anything appear without you knowing of it?

It seems that there is something more happening that I'm currently aware of. Attention is focused on writing these words. So I'm not aware of my legs for example. This confuses me.
To me awareness is a vague word. Knowing is better.

If there is no appearance/knowing of the colour labelled legs, then how can it possibly be known that legs exist?
We will look at the idea of the body next.

How is it known that there is something behind the door?

I have been there before = memory = thought. If the door is made of glass, there is seeing also.

Really? So there is something that exists outside of experience itself.
What is the AE of memory?
What is the AE of glass?
How is it known that the colour labelled ‘door’ is a door?

You tell me. You did the neck/head turning exercise above and the head exercise below. What did you find?

The "head turning" seems to be an idea. There is just colour seen.

Seems = thought….I want you to look and not think. So check again. Do the head turning exercise again and see if you can find a head turning, or is there simply sensation with a thought appearing that it is a head? Can you actually see a 'head' turning even?. Let me know what you find.

So can a 'head' be found in actual experience?

No.

Then how can a head be turning?

Yes. So is there an 'experiencer' of experience?

No experiencer found.

So then how can ‘attention’ be drawn to something? Does that not imply an experience and experience?

Love, Kay

[bluecat18]

Hi Kay,

"It feels like something is in the way" is simply a thought. Can you actually find anything in the way? Can colour, thought, sound, sensation etc get in the way?

Cannot find anything in the way. Just a thought. It is not possible for anything to be in the way because everything just is and there is nothing to be in the way of. There was just this expectation (thought) of how things should look like.

Can an experiencer of experience be found? In other words is there a 'knowing', 'knower' and 'known'?

No experiencer found. There is just knowing.

If there is no appearance/knowing of the colour labelled legs, then how can it possibly be known that legs exist?

There is this idea of a "body" and it includes legs. Other than that no knowing of legs.

Really? So there is something that exists outside of experience itself.
What is the AE of memory?

Thought

What is the AE of glass?

Colour

How is it known that the colour labelled 'door' is a door?

Thought about door.

Seems = thought….I want you to look and not think. So check again. Do the head turning exercise again and see if you can find a head turning, or is there simply sensation with a thought appearing that it is a head? Can you actually see a 'head' turning even?. Let me know what you find.

Cannot find a head, just sensations and thought. No head turning. "Turning" is a thought, there is only colour known.

Then how can a head be turning?

It really can't, there is just sensation and thought.

So then how can 'attention' be drawn to something? Does that not imply an experience and experience?

I was still thinking that I choose where the attention goes but apparently there is no-one to do that either :) So there is just knowing.

Bluecat