To see what there IS to be seen

[Curupira]

Hi, Ben!

Nowadays I'm having "calm days", so I could not find any frequent emotions/thoughts that were strong enough to be easy spotted.

So I started looking for the more subtles ones. I can describe the following:

- A little bit of "indignation" when reading some bad news in the newspaper or being on traffic and seeing someone not following the laws (the thought that triggers the "indignation" is something like "that's not right!" or "that's wrong!")

- Some "joy" and "happiness" and also some "fear" when I think about my daughter that is about to be born (she is my first child, so this is a very new situation for me). The "joy/happiness" feeling is triggered by all the kind thoughts about her and the "fear" is triggered by the thoughts about "not sure how it would be and if I will know to proper way to take care of her".

- Some "worry" when taking my wife to see the doctor for routine exams about her pregnancy (the thought that triggers the "worry" is something like "I hope that everything is ok with both my wife and daughter").

Those were the "feellings" I could notice for sure and the thoughts that are related to them.

The funny part about this is when I try to find the emotion in the body. And I can't find it. I can find, for example, some pressure in the chest (sensation) about the "fear" or the "worry", or some "freshness" (the chest becomes lighter, more opened - also sensation) and some smiles about the "joy" or "happiness", or some "blushing" or "warming" in the neck and face (sensations) about the "indignation", but I can't find any of these emotions in the body.

I can't find the "fear", the "indignation", the "joy" or the "worry". I find just thoughts and sensations that, together I name as "fear", "happiness" and so on.

Is that right? Waiting your reply! :)

Thanks!

[Ben2]

Excellent work.

You’ve basically seen my intentions with this exercise already.

Congrats on the new baby too!

As you can see, there’s two parts to the experience of “fear”. The sensation and the thought.

As you’ve now done, we can look at the sensations labelled fear, such as the sensations in the chest you described, and there’s nothing about or within the sensation that could contain fear. It’s just a sensation.

How about the thoughts you’ve labelled fear? Try bring them up. So like you said, “I hope everything is going to be okay” or one of those thoughts that you mentioned can create fear, or those chest sensations you described.

Is there anything inside the thoughts alone that could contain fear? Try looking at the thoughts alone, without the sensations, and see if you can find any fear inside them.

Ben

[Curupira]

Hi, Ben!

Congrats on the new baby too!

Thanks! :)

How about the thoughts you’ve labelled fear? Try bring them up. So like you said, “I hope everything is going to be okay” or one of those thoughts that you mentioned can create fear, or those chest sensations you described.

Is there anything inside the thoughts alone that could contain fear? Try looking at the thoughts alone, without the sensations, and see if you can find any fear inside them.

That's interesting because I had already tried this and I have found that the same thought that sometimes triggers some sensations on the body, in another moment does not do that.

When you asked to find thoughts and emotions that are frequent, I looked for some of those I described previously. I realized that "those are thoughts that make me fear something". So I brought them to mind and... nothing. No sensations.

So, I can clearly answer you by saying: no, a thought is a thought and nothing more. I don't know why sometimes the same thought triggers sensations and other times it doesn't but that's how I see them now... Is there an answer for this?

If the thought by itself carried all the sensations, it would be impossible to think about something without feeling the sensations.

Those are nice findings! :)

Waiting for your reply.

Thanks!

[Ben2]

Great, so you’ve seen that thoughts can’t contain fear. Also, sensations can’t contain fear.

What creates the illusion of fear is a thought/sensation combination that creates an APPEARANCE of fear. However when you look closely, fear isn’t found anywhere.

The self works in exactly this same way.

So back to the self.

What have you labelled with the “I” thought?

I can’t answer your questions regarding WHY, why doesn’t matter. All that’s matters right now is SEEING.

So LOOK!

Ben

[Curupira]

Hi, Ben!

What have you labelled with the “I” thought?

The "I" thought is the label of this set of body/thoughts/sensations.

About the "fear", I undestand that there is nothing real called "fear", but this combination of sensations e thought may be called "fear". A thought cannot contain fear, but a situation may trigger those sensations (for example if someone is in danger). All the sensations triggered by the danger situation may be called "fear".

I'll go deep in this "appearences" and report back to you.

Thanks!

[Ben2]

Hi Curupira

Yes, the combination of thought/sensation may be labelled fear, however when broke down and looked at closely, fear cannot be found anywhere. Not in sensations thoughts, colours, anywhere.

So where are YOU when you look closely? Is there a YOU that can be found anywhere at all?

Was there ever a separate YOU in any way, shape or form to be found anywhere?

Is it possible that there was never a separate you? There never has been and never will be?

Talk soon

Ben

[Curupira]

Hi, Ben!

Sorry about the delay. Busy days here.

Yes, the combination of thought/sensation may be labelled fear, however when broke down and looked at closely, fear cannot be found anywhere. Not in sensations thoughts, colours, anywhere.

So where are YOU when you look closely? Is there a YOU that can be found anywhere at all?

I can't find a "me" as an object, but the "me" is the one that is having all the (direct) experience.

Was there ever a separate YOU in any way, shape or form to be found anywhere?

No, not separate from any direct experience, simply because this "me" is not anywhere in direct experience, but the "me" is the one that is aware of the direct experienca (colour, sound, thoughts, etc).

Is it possible that there was never a separate you? There never has been and never will be?

I feel it, but I can say that yes, it is possible.

I just read all our posts again, trying to put all these pieces together (or to "separate" all these pieces...). I'll try to describe here all these "pieces", so you can point me to the right direction.

- All started by defining that all this "me" can be aware of is the items of "direct experience" (colour, sound, taste, smell, sensations and thoughts). Which I totally agree.

- Everything beyond these items are "content of thoughts". And "content of thoughts" does not exist in direct experience. The content of thoughts are "stories", which are not in direct experience and can't do anything. Which I also totally agree.

- I remember that exercise of raising the arm. If we break that exercise down just in direct experience, the arm can be raised without a thought about it. And, also, a thought about "stop moving the arm" can raise in mind and the arm still be moving. So, really describing this in direct experience, the only elements that are present are the sensations about the arm being raised. These sensations are being recognized as the arm being raised and down. Which I also totally agree.

- Then there was the part of breaking emotions down to direct experience. And, again, only thoughts and sensations are found in direct experience. There may be a thought and a content of thought about a situation that would lead to some emotion (like "fear") and the "emotion" does not happen. There also may be a sensation like an emotion, but the thought does not happen. Which appear to be the emotion is the "thought/content of thougth" + "sensations". I agree too.

- There was that exercise of closing my eyes and try to answer questions about the body. And the body is just sensations in direct experience. Even to feel a specific part of the body, it is necessary to focus to a specific part of it trying to feel the sensation for that "part" (for example hands, feet, head, etc). I agree too.

- I also agree that in the direct experience of the body, there is not an inside or an outside. There are just sensations, colour, etc...

- You asked sometimes to find the "me" in direct experience, as a separated "thing". I agree that there is not a "me". Just the direct experience "happening".

One aspect that puzzles me is that all this direct experience is being recognized by someone, even there is no "one" in direct experience. It is like direct experience and the "one" that is aware of it are from different nature.

Another aspect that intrigues me is that the set of "body/mind" is labeled as "me". So, this me is this body/mind that is aware of the direct experience that happens here, by this side of the story. I can't have the direct experience that you are having right now. So those are the labels "me" and "you". Can't this be labeled as "me" and "you", or "me" and "others"? Is this just a matter of semantics/language?

Right now is like I'm watching a play starred by this "character". If there is nothing more than the direct experience, and even the body actions are not triggered by a thought or something, it is like I'm an audience watching the play without having any influence in what is displayed/acted.

But, who is this "I" that watches the play? Who is this "I" for whom the direct experience happen?

You know, reading some material from Liberation Unleashed, it is said that to see that there is no "I", no "self", it is like to see that Santa Claus does not exist. Is it really this obvious? Because, to realize that Santa does not exist is very simple and undoubtely. This is something that pushes me to see the "no self", because, if is this obvious, this simple, I must see (or unsee!) this.

I almost feel that there is something right in front of my nose... I really don't know why this feeling comes from, and can't explain it, but it is here...

I'm sorry I wrote a lot, but I tried to summarize all these pieces in my mind just using direct experience. I'll add more if something more comes up.

Thanks, Ben!

[Ben2]

Hi Curupira

I get that your mind wants to make a story out of this, to piece together all the parts and make sense of this rationally. This is in the completely wrong direction that I'm trying to point you towards. We've been on this journey for a quite a while now, and I'm not sensing any of the standard signs that would normally happen showing that there's progress. I can think of a few reasons why this might be:

* You're not actually looking enough. I sense from your last post you're trying hard to understand things, put things together and "agree" with me, but how much ACTUAL LOOKING are you doing. The more you try to understand, interpret, analyse, agree, piece together, think, essentially listen to the content of your thoughts, the further away you're getting away from what you actually need to be doing: Just looking. The only thing thought it good for is asking questions and creating intensity to push you to look with more intent - "is this sensation/thought/colour me?"
* The looking you're actually doing may be too casual. I get that you've read things that say different, but in my experience with myself and my clients, there needs to be some kind of intensity to push through this stubborn illusion. LOOKING with intent, NEEDING to see as though your life depends on it.
* Consider that this enquiry may not actually work for you. I use this method only because it worked for me and it works for the highest percentage of people out of the methods I've come across, however it definitely doesn't work for everyone. If you believe you're following my instructions correctly and it's still not working, it may be time to consider looking into other methods.


Ben.

[Curupira]

Hi, Ben,

I'm really frustrated... I really thought I was following correctly your guidance, but your answer says the opposite. I'm sorry. When I said all the "agrees", that's because I could find that in direct experience.

I can garantee you that I really want to see through. I am really trying.

Let me stay with all this for sometime before trying another approach.

I'll be back soon.

Thanks.

[Ben2]

Frustration is excellent. Focus on it, amplify it 100 times. Let it be the fire behind your looking so you can see through this stubborn illusion.

[Curupira]

Hi, Ben.

I've seen it. Or, unseen it.

That happened a couple of days ago. And, yes, there is no separated entity doing nothing here.

In fact, it is very simple.

Habits, actions, thoughts are still here, but it is easy to see throught them. At the deepest level, there is just raw direct experience.

There are some feelings and thoughts that have to settle down yet, but... yes... that's it.

:)

[Ben2]

Excellent work, Curupira.

What’s different now to before?

[Curupira]

Hi, Ben!

Not much, but before there was this "character" interpreting things, always talking to himself.

Now, all this talking is just what it is, thoughts.

And, this talking is much more quiet right now.

I don't know how to explain exactly. But that's it. It is like some layer has been removed from the experience.

It is a little strange. I try to find words about what's happening right now and almost can't find them. Almost like a blank mind. And when the talking starts, as I said, it is possible to see that it is just thoughts...

:)

[Ben2]

Yes, words are really the worst ways to describe WHAT IS.

Look around at what’s around you, objects, trees, people.

Do you feel separate?

How would you describe it?

[Curupira]

Hi, Ben!

I don't know how to explain, but it is possible to see that looking to objetcs, to things, it looks like there is a separation, which seems real, but looking the whole thing considering just the direct experience, that's all that remains.

It looks like that I even can't say for sure that there is not a separation, because there is just direct experience and in direct experience there is just "experience". There is not an inside, outside, up, down, separation, unity. Those are just concepts...

Weird... :)

Thanks!