Oh yes please, let's keep the conversation going!
I really like the thoughts as containers, that makes a lot of sense to me
And yes the "I" as a thought sits with me also, I will report on the seeing
As I feel,it answers the question I have, which is still the sense of being.
I feel I may mistake this for the observer?
It is quite amazing how the mind basically runs about!
I will consider the observer in detail over my next session, my initial Idea is that as there cannot be a self" then there is no seer, seen or seeing as Seperate actions
It is all one, but I need time to sit with this.
Will report soon and thanks for your patience
Much love
Paul
Undoing
Re: Undoing
I’d like to add something:
It’s probably best not to think of the observer during the exercise. Just experience. And only in retrospection check, if you still feel the same about the observer.
Love, Sarah
It’s probably best not to think of the observer during the exercise. Just experience. And only in retrospection check, if you still feel the same about the observer.
Love, Sarah
there is no you, there is just looking
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pcshakesby
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:10 pm
Re: Undoing
Ok,
Thanks for the pre idea of not considering the observor
I just sat and let myself "be" with no control, or attempt to find anything.
There seems to be only experience, the observer comes and goes, which cannot be "real" as experience / awareness / being? Cannot come and go.
So I think the observer is just another object in awareness, as there is only awareness.
I drifted in and out during this exercise, which is how I came to that conclusion. Awareness is still present even when the observer isn't?
This leads to my further observation about sleep / awake - even in deep sleep, awareness is there, a sense of being (not dreams as they must be objects). The vocabulary here is difficult.
So to,summaries
The observor isn't real, it is just experience / a sense of being that seems to be all pervasive.
Thanks for the pre idea of not considering the observor
I just sat and let myself "be" with no control, or attempt to find anything.
There seems to be only experience, the observer comes and goes, which cannot be "real" as experience / awareness / being? Cannot come and go.
So I think the observer is just another object in awareness, as there is only awareness.
I drifted in and out during this exercise, which is how I came to that conclusion. Awareness is still present even when the observer isn't?
This leads to my further observation about sleep / awake - even in deep sleep, awareness is there, a sense of being (not dreams as they must be objects). The vocabulary here is difficult.
So to,summaries
The observor isn't real, it is just experience / a sense of being that seems to be all pervasive.
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pcshakesby
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:10 pm
Re: Undoing
So I'm finding it funny now! Ha ha I get it
There really is nothing, nothing at all!
How I clinged still, and even used doubt to cling also!!
I'm feeling the acceptance more of "no self", the emptiness I think scared me at first, a hope of some firm footing or something to cling onto maybe to lessen the fall.
But now I feel I have jumped, with no parachute into the emptiness!
And it feels great!!
I can see that there will be battles like this, as the illusion has been fairly fixed for a long time, but i can see how stuff just falls away. :)
A cosmic joke indeed!
There really is nothing, nothing at all!
How I clinged still, and even used doubt to cling also!!
I'm feeling the acceptance more of "no self", the emptiness I think scared me at first, a hope of some firm footing or something to cling onto maybe to lessen the fall.
But now I feel I have jumped, with no parachute into the emptiness!
And it feels great!!
I can see that there will be battles like this, as the illusion has been fairly fixed for a long time, but i can see how stuff just falls away. :)
A cosmic joke indeed!
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pcshakesby
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:10 pm
Re: Undoing
Had a walk out at the local nature reserve today
Made the following notes
Life flows
It just happens
Your “self” creates purpose, meaning all heavens and hells with what is expected as opposed to simply “what is”
“What is” is the now, it was comes next in the adventure not knowing is part of the fun, the entertainment
No past no future only a story.
Life just flows, our “self” gets in the way of that flow
A self that was never here and never was
It grabs onto life and stops flow, seperating, partitioning it, endlessly trying to make sense of it
Instead of just accepting “what is”
Made the following notes
Life flows
It just happens
Your “self” creates purpose, meaning all heavens and hells with what is expected as opposed to simply “what is”
“What is” is the now, it was comes next in the adventure not knowing is part of the fun, the entertainment
No past no future only a story.
Life just flows, our “self” gets in the way of that flow
A self that was never here and never was
It grabs onto life and stops flow, seperating, partitioning it, endlessly trying to make sense of it
Instead of just accepting “what is”
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pcshakesby
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:10 pm
Re: Undoing
I also watched Black Mirror :)
Re: Undoing
:-D
There are e few final questions we have at LU. They’re like a summary for yourself. I’ll find them tomorrow. Until then:
Enjoy life-ing!
And a happy new year!
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3
There are e few final questions we have at LU. They’re like a summary for yourself. I’ll find them tomorrow. Until then:
Enjoy life-ing!
And a happy new year!
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3
there is no you, there is just looking
Re: Undoing
Dear Paul
I found the questions :)
If they trigger some more "I stories" - wonderful! Let's root them out and put this thing to rest.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue/crashed the gate? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
4.5) personal question from "me": I'm curious, did you crash the gate before you signed up at LU?
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
6) Is there anything to add?
Love, Sarah
I found the questions :)
If they trigger some more "I stories" - wonderful! Let's root them out and put this thing to rest.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue/crashed the gate? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
4.5) personal question from "me": I'm curious, did you crash the gate before you signed up at LU?
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
6) Is there anything to add?
Love, Sarah
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pcshakesby
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:10 pm
Re: Undoing
Thanks Sarah
Settling in!
Before I answer the questions I would like to thank you, I think reflection was a key part of the process for me, and having someone at the other end made that possible, I do have a question of my own
is there further support / forums for people who have crashed the gate and are settling in?
Best wishes
Paul
Settling in!
Before I answer the questions I would like to thank you, I think reflection was a key part of the process for me, and having someone at the other end made that possible, I do have a question of my own
is there further support / forums for people who have crashed the gate and are settling in?
Best wishes
Paul
-
pcshakesby
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:10 pm
Re: Undoing
Ok,
It makes sense, simple sense. Intuitively, the question of who am I kept coming up, I now know! My work has been one of endless seeking, expecting more insights. To realise something as simple as this, is at once an anticlimax, but at the same time "enlightening". All things make sense, my work, meditation, make more sense. The difference I think before I crashed the gate to after was the question of the simplicity of it all, it needed in my head t more complex, forever hunting and attaining. To see it was a stripping away, questioning "what was not", rather than "what is" was the big push, the big reveal. I now see "what is" and can remove "expectations".
there is no seperate entity called self, me or I anywhere im any shape or form. There never has been. There is nothing but conciousness. Direct experience has confirmed this for me. All objects arise and fall in consciousness, there is no seer, doer, no "numbskulls" living in my head running the controls. Only life expressing itself.1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
The illusion of seperate self is a story made up by a sense of separateness when losing yourself in thought, stories, memories and fictions. The mind labels everything it sees, and direct experience becomes a label. The moment it is labelled it is no longer direct experience. Social conditioning and religion compounds this, by mistaking the symbols and labels for the real thing. To define means to "fix" and real life, cannot be fixed, permanent, secure or stable, it is flowing, transient and free.2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue/crashed the gate? Please report from the past few days.
It makes sense, simple sense. Intuitively, the question of who am I kept coming up, I now know! My work has been one of endless seeking, expecting more insights. To realise something as simple as this, is at once an anticlimax, but at the same time "enlightening". All things make sense, my work, meditation, make more sense. The difference I think before I crashed the gate to after was the question of the simplicity of it all, it needed in my head t more complex, forever hunting and attaining. To see it was a stripping away, questioning "what was not", rather than "what is" was the big push, the big reveal. I now see "what is" and can remove "expectations".
The last bit, was a simple jump, a leap into nothing. I believed something was there, when we questioned everything, I could find no firm ground, no bedrock. It was then simple to just "fall"4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
this is a good question, it would appear I had, but intellect and reason stopped me from allowing it, so yes and no, yes I had, but no - LU was the final relisation that I couldn't think my way out! My body had already got there!4.5) personal question from "me": I'm curious, did you crash the gate before you signed up at LU?
Nothing makes things happen, free will, control and choice are an illusion. Our DNA and life living through us appears to be what makes things happen, but I am still thinking on this, intention and self discipline certainly makes life better, there seems to be personal power in intent, but I realise this appears more in line with "will" than freedom. Real freedom is alignment with "what is". In terms of what makes things happen, I still aren't sure, this may take more thought, experience.5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience
Yes, I can see how "no self" leads to removal of suffering. Accepting life in the present moment. Ethics are an important part of Humanities future, and I only hope that collectively this realisation comes to fruition, I know a part needs to be played here, and I am willing to play it.6) Is there anything to add?
Re: Undoing
Hi Paul and thank you for your patience!
Your answers are wonderful, so few words you need to explain, very nice!
We’ll wait now and see if any more questions come back, or else you be admitted as a gate crasher. This will probably not take long.
Your answers are wonderful, so few words you need to explain, very nice!
We’ll wait now and see if any more questions come back, or else you be admitted as a gate crasher. This will probably not take long.
Re: Undoing
To your question about continuous support:
yes, there are a few different things you can do. But let me first talk about the crashing itself.
This sequence, or something similar, is what most people go through when they crash the gate. Some skip the bliss, but most have some elated state right after the crash. Which doesn’t last. And here it comes: the realization of no self is a much bigger change to the life than this momentary bliss. But still being human (and well it really happens at the same time, so: forgiven) the bliss and that feeling of just knowing get connected in the mind. When the bliss starts to wear off, the doubting starts. This can be weeks or mere seconds. Does this in any way sound familiar?
The doubts can come back and so can stories of self, old or new. But you can never lose the realization of no self. Whatever happens, ask yourself „who is doubting/wanting/fearing…?“ and do the inquiry the way you learnt it. And sometimes, you’ll get a sticky one and might need a friend to ask you the questions. And so we’re back to your question for support :)
Once you’re fully processed by the LU machinery, you’ll have the following options:
1) Join the Facebook group of the gate crashers. Don’t be afraid to ask questions, it’s a warm and loving place.
2) Join the Unleashed forum here on the forum website. There's a whole section for the newly crashed.
3) Me. You can alway pm me directly on the forum. I’d love to help if I can.
4) Guide! Become a guide a soon as possible. Share the love and at the same time, with the clients questions, keep your own inquiry going. Need more incentive? Well - you’re my first crashed client. It’s easy, see? :)
What else?
Well, the bad news is, there’s probably gonna be more inquiring to be done before enlightenment. Maybe take a vacation and then start looking for the next steps you want to go. The Unleashed forum is a great place to find what might come next. I personally like the work by Byron Katie and the 10 fetters. This is what I personally know, not LU recommendation, you’ll find more in the forum.
Love, Sarah
yes, there are a few different things you can do. But let me first talk about the crashing itself.
Crash - certainty - bliss - end of bliss/back to everyday life - doubting the whole thing
This sequence, or something similar, is what most people go through when they crash the gate. Some skip the bliss, but most have some elated state right after the crash. Which doesn’t last. And here it comes: the realization of no self is a much bigger change to the life than this momentary bliss. But still being human (and well it really happens at the same time, so: forgiven) the bliss and that feeling of just knowing get connected in the mind. When the bliss starts to wear off, the doubting starts. This can be weeks or mere seconds. Does this in any way sound familiar?
The doubts can come back and so can stories of self, old or new. But you can never lose the realization of no self. Whatever happens, ask yourself „who is doubting/wanting/fearing…?“ and do the inquiry the way you learnt it. And sometimes, you’ll get a sticky one and might need a friend to ask you the questions. And so we’re back to your question for support :)
Once you’re fully processed by the LU machinery, you’ll have the following options:
1) Join the Facebook group of the gate crashers. Don’t be afraid to ask questions, it’s a warm and loving place.
2) Join the Unleashed forum here on the forum website. There's a whole section for the newly crashed.
3) Me. You can alway pm me directly on the forum. I’d love to help if I can.
4) Guide! Become a guide a soon as possible. Share the love and at the same time, with the clients questions, keep your own inquiry going. Need more incentive? Well - you’re my first crashed client. It’s easy, see? :)
What else?
Well, the bad news is, there’s probably gonna be more inquiring to be done before enlightenment. Maybe take a vacation and then start looking for the next steps you want to go. The Unleashed forum is a great place to find what might come next. I personally like the work by Byron Katie and the 10 fetters. This is what I personally know, not LU recommendation, you’ll find more in the forum.
Love, Sarah
Re: Undoing
It has been a joy to work with you, Paul. All the best. 
Love, Sarah
Love, Sarah
there is no you, there is just looking
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