seeing not just intellectualizing

[vinceschubert]

Good evening T,

Hello and merry christmas

Thankyou. ..and merry christmas to you too. i wish you the best of christmas everyday. (i really hope for good things for you)

I really wanted an answer to that question (of why she was sick?)

This is a really big one. That is the need for answers.
The mind wants satisfaction, although it is never satisfied. It continually seeks explanations.
Now the big one is this; The ONLY thing that you can know is the direct experiencing of sensations. Everything else is story. Concepts. Mind stuff. Usually explanations.
Even the knowing of direct experiencing is extremely fleeting. It lasts for milliseconds, before the mind arrives with explanations and stories about it.
So practically speaking, everything is mind stuff, or the result of mind stuff.
This means that everything might or might not be accurate. It is speculation.
So what is an answer but more mind stuff.
In real terms, in our daily life, if we go about knowing that we know nothing, and that everything might or might not be what it appears to be, then the value of an answer is very low.
If we can be satisfied with the questions that arise but not need to answer them, happiness ensues.
The wonder of what used to be considered normal, shines through. Fucking wonder full !
How amazing is it that we can move a foot forward and plant our whole weight on it while we move the other one forward and not fall over ? How brilliant is the color of a flower in bloom ?
i guess that you have been too busy in your pain to notice these things ?

when someone doesnt understand me i feel its because they dont know me and i have to explain.

Ah yes. Wanting to be liked may play a big part in this. (insecurity) i use do be the same. Now i know that it's impossible for anyone else to understand me, so i don't care much if they do or not.
i do know that it is impossible for me to actually know how anybody else thinks or feels.

But i guess i have suffered enough.

You sure have. ..and brilliant that you see the possibility of that ending.

Could iv had a 5 year long existential crisis?

Yes, for sure.

But i dont see what there is to learn from them. All iv seen is how it made me defensive, angry, sad, crippled in many ways, closed, hard, bitter, untrusting.

Well, you could have learned that how it's made you is not the way to go.

And now i have to undo all that mess cuse its not the person i want to be.

No, you don't have to undo it. Undoing will happen. (and we are rewriting the story of the person that you want to be)

Yes i think what i need to do is set some concious time a side and think it through, write it down, make some sort of a not ceremony but marking or something physical to make a decisiom or promise or somthing of that nature that i will accep this as best i can and move on.

Good stuff. So make it something to do within the next couple of days. (make it a christmas present to yourself) and post it here. (and we will fine tune it)

(Hope u understand what im saying

Yes i do.

love

vince

[tissetatten]

Hello
Thank you and i wish good things for you as well..

How brilliant is the color of a flower in bloom ?
i guess that you have been too busy in your pain to notice these things ?

Well yes i have and its not just that in busy. I stoped carring.
I like art and colours and music and animals and the beach. But those arnt things that have been part of my life in a long time. Because i thought whats the point?

Wanting to be liked may play a big part in this.

Here i disagree.. its not the wanting to be liked. I like being on my own, im not too much of a ppl person. But when somone tryes to get to know me i enevetably have to explain certain things.

Now i know that it's impossible for anyone else to understand me, so i don't care much if they do or not.

This one is harder for me. I want my best friends to be on this jurney, to see this stuff, to understand. But its clear that they dont have an interest in it. Theu want to have familys and carrers and thats all they see.

Undoing will happen. (and we are rewriting the story of the person that you want to be)

Thats the thing though. I didnt want to rewrite. I dont want a new and impruved version of me. I dont want to add new concepts. I get sick when i look at those peppy inspirstional videos. I dont want to be goal chasing, dreamy or what ever iv already done that. That to is an excape a way of not being here and living for the future and puping ur fake self up.
This is alsow the reason of why iv been so stuck. I dont know how to move forward without those things either.

Good stuff. So make it something to do within the next couple of days. (make it a christmas present to yourself) and post it here. (and we will fine tune it)

Maybe ill do it as a nee years resolution or something. But no i wont post some big speach here.


Well of ill go to the rock bar were ill be spending christmas..


Big hug

/T

[vinceschubert]

Good evening T, i hope that you had a good christmas.

I stopped caring.

i guess that you were in too much pain to care ?

Because i thought what's the point?

Was this because other things seemed more important ?

Here i disagree.. its not the wanting to be liked.

Oh, ok. i took it as something that happened early in a relationship. i suppose that when people get to know you a bit, they get curious, and possibly brave enough to ask personal questions.

I want my best friends to be on this jurney, to see this stuff, to understand.

Ha, me too. For years i used to pontificate on this stuff. i wanted everybody to get spiritual, not just my friends.
Just after waking up it was very intense.
Now, i don't bother anyone with this stuff. (unless they ask)

But its clear that they dont have an interest in it. Theu want to have familys and carrers and thats all they see.

Yes, this is true for most people. (i think)

Thats the thing though. I didn't want to rewrite.

You've got no choice in this. It happens continuously. It's the result of experience.
Nothing stays the same.

I dont want a new and impruved version of me. I dont want to add new concepts.

No, that's not what will happen.
In this case the rewrite will mainly be removing concepts.
There will be more deletion than addition.
The old self will be seen to be the result of concepts. The rewriting will debunk lots of these.

I get sick when i look at those peppy inspirstional videos.

Yes, me too. They are the main cause of misinformation about what waking up actually is. They crap on about enlightenment as though it was some magical state.

This is alsow the reason of why iv been so stuck. I dont know how to move forward without those things either.

We are finding a way through.
Whether you recognize it or not, there has already been a shift happening.

Maybe ill do it as a nee years resolution or something.

Great. You will probably get some insights from it.

ut no i wont post some big speech here.

..aww. Perhaps just a summary ?

love

vince

[tissetatten]

Hello. I went out had a burger and beer in a rockbar.
My friends were releaved that i wasnt spending christams alone and that i did "something" they all feel better now.

i guess that you were in too much pain to care ?

Yeah. Everything seemed to wrong or bad anyway.
I seemed to be stuck.
And felt like i couldt get a break.

Was this because other things seemed more important ?

No its because no thing is important. Amd so i had no motivation to do anything.

Ha, me too. For years i used to pontificate on this stuff. i wanted everybody to get spiritual, not just my friends.
Just after waking up it was very intense.

Well i dont pontificate, dont talk much about it but they know what i read or follow or post on fb or if i go to some yoga or whater event. We have every other interest in common exept this. They rather have kids and a normal family life.

In this case the rewrite will mainly be removing concepts.
There will be more deletion than addition.
The old self will be seen to be the result of concepts. The rewriting will debunk lots of these.

Thats what iv wanted to do but dont know how. And have been stuck. Iv beed afraid to pick up the things i like and get attached and lost in new concepts again. But i cant just stand still and do absolutly nothing with my life either.

Yes, me too. They are the main cause of misinformation about what waking up actually is. They crap on about enlightenment as though it was some magical state.

I dont even mean that, i mean tony robbinson type of stuff, ted talks, you can be and achive and have and set ur goals and dream and bla bla bla... I have no doubt that that sort of stuff works but i dont want to be chasing things for happyness

..aww. Perhaps just a summary ?

no not even. I probably tell you what i did in biģ strokes. But it wont be dramatic. Ill probably just trite somewhers as a reminder or advice to myself hiw to think about my story and why. And see if i can stick to it next time i feel unlucky..


Thanx 💜

[tissetatten]

Hi there again..


And anoter thing maybe of no importans but i still felt like writing it..

Remeber when i said there is no god or bad just different?
I think i may have found an other way to explane what i mean.. not saying that this is a great explination but...

Instead of seeing things as two they are one thing just at the other end of the spectrum.

Like if you have a volyme dial. Loud is not one thing and silence an other. If u have it on max its loud and if you gradualy pull the dial down it will minimize the sound until its gone. But its one thing.

Like the colour white is just shades away from black, one thing.

Hot degrees away from cold, still same one thing.

If you have a full room and you take out one thing at a time it will become emptier and emtptyer untill empty.

Is this making any sence or is it just nonsence?

Anyway sorry to go off on a tangent. Was just an idea


/T

[vinceschubert]

Good evening T, i'm too tired to respond tonight. Will attend to your post tomorrow night.

love

vince

[vinceschubert]

Good evening T,

My friends were releaved that i wasnt spending christams alone and that i did "something" they all feel better now.

Do you feel better that they feel better ?

They rather have kids and a normal family life.

Are you envious ?

But i cant just stand still and do absolutly nothing with my life either.

i know what you mean, but if we look we find that this is impossible. Everything always changes. So if things seem to stay the same, it is the old changing into the new in the image of the old.

I have no doubt that that sort of stuff works but i dont want to be chasing things for happyness

That is good. Chasing happiness doesn't get happiness. (it gets chasing..)
i don't know if they work. They do offer a lot of hope.

And see if i can stick to it next time i feel unlucky..

You might be feeling unlucky for a while (or not) before you realize that you are feeling unlucky.
Make sure that the moment that you recognize what you are feeling, that you celebrate it with a smile.
We need to develop our skill at recognizing a point of departure into suffering.

Is this making any sense or is it just nonsense?

All of the things that you mention are the difference on a spectrum. Each are descriptions of different aspects of one 'thing'.
The moral overtone to good and bad is extra to the description, and changes the meaning of the descriptions to a judgement.
You make perfect sense.

love

vince

[tissetatten]

Hello

Do you feel better that they feel better ?

No. It doesnt matter to me. It feelt like a night at the pub, and not at all christmasy to me so i have to come up with a better tradition for the future.

Are you envious ?

Haha god no. I want to get steralized. That type of life would depress me. And id rather end it then.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I find it hard to get motivated to do stuff if its not to evolve or for the betterment or change something. Should i just do stuff for my enjoyment and not for any specific purpose? I was thinking of how Byron Katie does it. She talks to ppl and writes books and it seems like shes helping ppl (and ofcorse she does) but it doesnt matter to her, at the same time..

Like i tend to think we should have equal rights, and i would want to help in that reguard. But should is a made up word and not what is. Should is not real. Does this mean i do nothing and just accept what ever is? See this sort of things makes it hard to act. Like i have no "passion" or fire for anything anymore.

I guess i have to find a new motivation for doing things. I do becaus i do and for no real reson. Because its happening, i feel like it, its what i like. And just forget the outcome or give it a deeper reason or meaning.


/ hug

[vinceschubert]

Good evening T,

No. It doesn't matter to me.

So you have no compassion for your friends ?
You don't feel good when they do, or not when they don't ? Hmm, maybe it's empathy rather than compassion.

Haha god no.

Yet you call their life "normal". Does this mean that you don't want to be "normal" ?

I find it hard to get motivated to do stuff if its not to evolve or for the betterment or change something.

So is change for betterment is what you would call purpose ?

Should i just do stuff for my enjoyment and not for any specific purpose?

There's two things here. The "should". Analyze it for me please.
..and doing specific stuff. What choice is there to do this rather than that ? How many of the necessary conditions do you control to make anything happen ?

how Byron Katie does it. She talks to ppl and writes books and it seems like shes helping ppl (and ofcorse she does) but it doesnt matter to her, at the same time..

What do you think her motivation is ?

But should is a made up word and not what is. Should is not real.

Ah, you've answered the question above about should.

Does this mean i do nothing and just accept what ever is?

Doing nothing is impossible. (and so is doing something )
Doing will happen, and if accepting also happens, then doing will be in harmony with... something.

I guess i have to find a new motivation for doing things.

If you are just sensitive to what is happening, motivation might emerge. More likely just description.
There exists in you a desire for good. Perhaps this might be described as motivation.

I do becaus i do and for no real reson. Because its happening, i feel like it, its what i like. And just forget the outcome or give it a deeper reason or meaning.

Beautiful...

love

vince

[tissetatten]

Hi

So you have no compassion for your friends ?
You don't feel good when they do, or not when they don't ? Hmm, maybe it's empathy rather than compassion.

No i dont think me going to a bar on christmas so they can feel better is dilusional.
I do have conpassion. It depends on what happens. If there hurting badly then yes it makes me sad. If there really hpoy im happy for them. If its trivial i dont really care no.

Yet you call their life "normal". Does this mean that you don't want to be "normal" ?

I ment the volvo the dog the kids the husbend the jobb that only pays the bills but kills ur soul. That sort of normal. No that is not what i want.

So is change for betterment is what you would call purpose ?

No betterment is just that making something better (more to my own taste and preferece) than it is now.

and doing specific stuff. What choice is there to do this rather than that ? How many of the necessary conditions do you control to make anything happen ?

well i can search only for jobs i want and apply to studies that i want to study. That i can do then its up to the employer and universetys to accpt me or not. And somethings i can do on my own like hobbys and training.

What do you think her motivation is ?

Well she says shes being lived. She doesnt k ow what shes about to do untill she is doing it. And alsow i think compassion motivates her, her heart. Shes said she sees everyone as her, just like cells in her own body and if they suffer and aske her for help offcorse she will try to help them. Its just another part of her that is not awake and that belives there suffering.

Doing nothing is impossible. (and so is doing something )
Doing will happen, and if accepting also happens, then doing will be in harmony with... something.

Hmmm. Then i guess i need to focous on the accepting part.

If you are just sensitive to what is happening, motivation might emerge. More likely just description.
There exists in you a desire for good. Perhaps this might be described as motivation.

Today for example i got an email asking if i want to volenteer at a yoga school my friend works in.. its from 12-17 on sundays and for that i get to participate in all there yoga courses for free. And coincidentaly the kundaliniyoga starts 17:45 on sunday wich means i could do that right after my shift. Iv been wanting to learn kundaliniyoga but not had the time and not really wanted to spend the money on the course and now i can do it for free if i just light some canldes and take ppls tickets at the studio.. Is this the kind of thing you mean by being sensitive to what is happening?



Vince, i must say that this feels more like therapy and fixing my life rather then seeing what im not seeing. Dont get me wrong i do need to change and do all this stuff but its not at all what i thought i qould be doing here. I thought i would do exersizes or sit in meditation and try to notice something or to that nature.
It feels like its been ages since i read a book about this stuff. I had just gotten the course in miricals before we decided i shouldnt read.. its just laying there on the shelf now..


/T

[vinceschubert]

Good evening T,

I do have conpassion. It depends on what happens. If there hurting badly then yes it makes me sad. If there really hpoy im happy for them. If its trivial i dont really care no.

Is that "trivial" to you or trivial to them ?

That sort of normal. No that is not what i want.

So can you describe what you do want ?

No betterment is just that making something better (more to my own taste and preferece) than it is now.

So that's not a goal in life for you ?

i can search only for jobs i want and apply to studies that i want to study. That i can do then its up to the employer and universetys to accpt me or not. And somethings i can do on my own like hobbys and training.

You keep saying that you can do these things, but they haven't happened yet (have they?)
Can you really do them, or will it take circumstances to align before they happen ?

not awake and that believes there suffering.

What would you say if i told you that the only difference between her and you, is that the world has opened up for her because she perceives it in a certain way. ..and you suffer because you're perspective is narrow ?

Is this the kind of thing you mean by being sensitive to what is happening?

Yes. ..open to opportunities.

Vince, i must say that this feels more like therapy and fixing my life rather then seeing what im not seeing.

Sometimes they are indistinguishable. One leads into the other. i have no plan to fix or change you. i simply respond to what you write. i too don't know what i'm doing until it is happening.
If it feels like therapy, it's because what you are offering for me to comment on, is therapy stuff.
The thing with waking up is that you don't wake into a different place, it's that the light goes on to illuminate what already exists. (the light going on is a bad anagogy. It's more like the filters that obscured the light are removed)

It feels like its been ages since i read a book about this stuff.

This is good. The book will still be there when we finish, but to read it now would hijack what we are doing.

love

vince

[tissetatten]

Hi

Is that "trivial" to you or trivial to them ?

To me.

So can you describe what you do want ?

I like to study things, i like art i like music im into natural cures and medicin and i like to learn about occult, esoteric things, and id like to try ayahuasca or other stuff/ ways to alter cobciousness. I wonder about human history, and reality and im interested in psycology, sexology, bodywork. I do think the world has a lot of beautiful things and u could spend the whole of my life learning and discovering. I do want love and someone/someones who chare my interests eventually oh and a cat. And maybe move to a warm coumtry.

So that's not a goal in life for you ?

No like i said i had no goals. If better is a concept and not real. I was trying to be ok with what is. But i wasnt so now i guess i have to do something.

You keep saying that you can do these things, but they haven't happened yet (have they?)
Can you really do them, or will it take circumstances to align before they happen ?

Touche. it will take some things to happen. Like right now im wating on a dessision. And after that its easyer for me to know what to do. BUT its alsow me, i could actually do some stuff right now in my own home, without any outiside forces or signals or anything and yet i havent done these things yet because i havent felt like it. I had a teaçher who once said dont wait for inspiration to come it never will, start and then it will come. (that was ablut wrighting but it can be applyed for everything i think)

What would you say if i told you that the only difference between her and you, is that the world has opened up for her because she perceives it in a certain way. ..and you suffer because you're perspective is narrow ?

Well, some say depression happens because of the thought patterns and persception one has. And if you can change that you will be "normal" or happy even so i wouldnt be surprized if my perspective is narrow and negative. But that sounds like good news if i can learn how to braden my perspective that is..

Yes. ..open to opportunities

I sort of now what you mean here. I saw this darren brown episode (u know the english mentalist guy who can read ppls minds?) He did this episode where he went to some small village and started spreading a roomer about a lucky dog statue (you should watch it if you havent seen it its probably on utube) and he was doing an experiment on luck. And most ppl were sort of lucky they petted the staue and won some thing or had good news or something. Exept this one man the butcher in the village. He was very pessimistic, didnt belive in luck, never felt lucky. And derren even tryied to rigg stuff for him to be lucky. He threw money on the path that the bucher was walking but the bucher walkt right passed it and the person behind him foumd the money. He had sat up a quis where a lady gave you a prize if you could answer some questions about meat. He didnt even want to hear the questions just ignored her. And some other ppl anwered and won. See he couldnt see this stuff. Even though the opportunetys where there he didnt even notice them.

This is good. The book will still be there when we finish, but to read it now would hijack what we are doing.

Fine i wont read 😋


Thanx

[vinceschubert]

Good evening T,

Is that "trivial" to you or trivial to them ?

To me.

So are you not aware of how important it is to them ? ..or just don't care ? (empathy or compassion) ..or something else ?

I like...

You have curiosity, and talent, and a joy of learning (discovery) Sounds like plenty of room for purpose in there.

And maybe move to a warm country.

Careful what you wish for. We've had 33degree Celsius days with 80+% humidity here. Comfort requires an air conditioner.

I was trying to be ok with what is. But i wasn't

Are you taking the exercise (to celebrate) i gave you seriously ? This is a life changer. A portal into acceptance (and thus awakening)
The point of trying to be ok with what is, and not succeeding, isn't that you give up and revert to the old ways that never worked. It is that you use it as a practice to develop the skill of recognition.
You can't make yourself recognize. Discovery has to happen (seemingly) on it's own.
If recognition happens (or rather when it does, then celebrating it (with a laugh or smile) will lead to it happening easier next time. ..and sooner.
You have the intellectual understanding of an awakened one, but not the consequences of that understanding. We have to get it from your head to your body, and it won't happen by magic. (despite what you read in the pop spiritual literature)
If we'd met the moment before you went down that black hole, you'd be smelling the flowers now and blown away by the wonder of it all.

I had a teaçher who once said dont wait for inspiration to come it never will, start and then it will come. (that was ablut wrighting but it can be applyed for everything i think)

This is excellent advice for those not seeking awakening. For you it perpetuates the illusion of personal control and decision making.
..but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Being open to the opportunities to embrace those things as life offers them, is much more appropriate.

Well, some say depression happens because of the thought patterns and persception one has.

That is one theory.

But that sounds like good news if i can learn how to braden my perspective that is..

Great attitude. love it. ..but again, you talk like you can do something to broaden your perspective ??
It will happen, but not because of anything that you can consciously do.
It will happen, because as suffering lessens, there is more space to recognize the greater context of things. (among other conditions)

I saw this derren brown episode

yes, love him.

the english mentalist guy who can read ppls minds

No he can't. He's just very skillful at putting things in their minds and can read body language and other cues really well.

I sort of now what you mean here.

This is a perfect example. Excellent.

See he couldnt see this stuff. Even though the opportunetys where there he didnt even notice them.

Yes, exactly. He was so wrapped up in his suffering that he was blind to anything else. (does it sound familiar?)

love

vince

[tissetatten]

Happy new year..

So are you not aware of how important it is to them ? ..or just don't care ? (empathy or compassion) ..or something else ?

I dont know how important it is. I dont really see it that way. I dont see st as compassion i see that the idea if me being in a bar instead of alone maked them think im better. Not that i really am. If you care about your friends do you want them to genuinly have it better or just see what makes you happy?
And no im not sappy or overly conpassionet, i dont know why your stuck on this? Iv seen a lot of hardship and what ppl think is hard is usually not much to me so i cant emathyse with that. Guess you can call me hardend or closed hearted. I do get affected when ppl or animals have been through REALLY tough things. Like war or tremendes loss or injustice.

Are you taking the exercise (to celebrate) i gave you seriously ? This is a life changer. A portal into acceptance (and thus awakening)

Can you explain it differnently. I honestly dont think i really get what im suposed to be doing. Lets say i get som bad news. And the moment i start to think about what this could lead to is that when i smile? Because i dont really understand whats suposed to happen here. Somthing bad happens and u think crap why this then smile. And then what? I still habe the same thoughts and feelings and think its crap. Or should i just stop thiking of outcomes after the smile?

No he can't. He's just very skillful at putting things in their minds and can read body language and other cues really well.

Well i know i was just describing him. But he is impressive.

..but again, you talk like you can do something to broaden your perspective ??

Well if the mind is conditioning and only knows what we put in there will it not become brainwashed if i just read, watch positive things? Some ppl say if you practice grattitude youre life willl change. If you write a jernal everyday about things your thankfull for. I havent done these sorts of things because i found them silly and new agy before and dint really belive in that sort if effort. But now willing to try i really want to change and be more stable and happyer and not to negative.

Yes, exactly. He was so wrapped up in his suffering that he was blind to anything else. (does it sound familiar?)

Well it does when you point it out to me. I saw that eppisode a d didnt jump to the conclusion that i was him. And if i am him i dont know where to start looking for opportunetys. Where do you look to see what you didnt see before? I am trying though.


Tonight im not going out for new year. Im doing my ritual like i told you befor. Writing that i have to accept my story and let go of it and have positive intentions for 2018. And some champagne.


/T 💖

[tissetatten]

Hey

Something else came to mind i wanted to tell you. It has to do with enpathy.
When i was a kid, (dont know what age but pretty young, dont have the best memory)
I didnt get why it was so uppsetting to loose someone. I thought there are so many ppl, so what if a few dissapear? What does it matter if 1 person dies. what is a person? Nothing really. And then i thought about it some more and i saw that a person is all his memoryes, experiances, thoughts (witch seemd like milion of images) and all of a sudden I saw that ppl were filled with a bunch of stuff, and each one different stuff and thats what we would loose if a person died and so then I put more value on ppls lives after that.