I

[JonathanR]

Hi Renee,

I feel I'm trying to get away from the personal feeling of it to see that there's just noticing. But I can't get away from this personal sense which feels like something! :)

Are we trying to get away from something? or simply see it for what it is?

OK, please focus a little on this personal sense. What's it made of? Anything more than thoughts about 'a personal sense that feels like something'? It sounds as though there may be sensations too?

Notice any sensations or feelings that appear when thoughts about the personal sense are happening. Such feelings or sensations might, for example, seem to be associated with the body?

Please describe how this personal sense is experienced, what the sensations are like? Where this sense is experienced?

Thank you,

Jon

[springwater]

Jon,

I feel I'm trying to get away from the personal feeling of it to see that there's just noticing.

Are we trying to get away from something? or simply see it for what it is?

Please describe how this personal sense is experienced, what the sensations are like? Where this sense is experienced?

I want to see it for what it is. I'm trying to get a sense of what the sensations are like. It seems to be all in my head. It feels something of my own ... 'I'. Hard to explain what I'm trying to say. I will write more tomorrow.

Thank you,
Renee

[JonathanR]

Hi Renee,

I'm trying to get a sense of what the sensations are like. It seems to be all in my head. It feels something of my own .

Then you must look for the owner of that feeling, since that is where 'self' would seem to be?

Whenever 'self' seems to be 'there' take a direct look for it. If this self is a real thing it should be possible to find where it's hiding?


Best wishes,

Jon

[springwater]

Jon,

Then you must look for the owner of that feeling, since that is where 'self' would seem to be?

Whenever 'self' seems to be 'there' take a direct look for it. If this self is a real thing it should be possible to find where it's hiding?

I feel confused and stuck. You helped me see there is just noticing happening. There's something comforting in this thing that never goes away that's always noticing. It feels like a 'me' but not the Renee 'me'. There is the created self always changing and getting redefined it seems. But then there's this intimateness that's always there...having an unchanging aspect and definitely feels personal in a vast way.

Thank you Jon,
Renee

[JonathanR]

Hello Renee

. I feel confused and stuck. You helped me see there is just noticing happening. There's something comforting in this thing that never goes away that's always noticing. It feels like a 'me' but not the Renee 'me'. There is the created self always changing and getting redefined it seems. But then there's this intimateness that's always there...having an unchanging aspect and definitely feels personal in a vast way.

What is it that is experiencing (anything) right now?

Tell me what is doing the experiencing?

Does there,seem to be an experiencer?


love

Jon

[springwater]

Jon,

What is it that is experiencing (anything) right now?

Tell me what is doing the experiencing?

Does there,seem to be an experiencer?

I can see now experiencing is just happening like noticing is just happening. There is no break in it and it's not able to be controlled. There's not something doing the experiencing because it's happening seamlessly without me...oh :). I still need to spend time on the - does there seem to be an experiencer question.

Thank you,
Renee

[JonathanR]

Hi Renee,

Good work. Well done. Let me know how it goes?

Jon

[springwater]

Jon,

Does there,seem to be an experiencer?

There seems to be an experiencer. It's like something is taking in the information of experiences. Like an observer.

Thank you,
Renee

[springwater]

Jon,

Does there,seem to be an experiencer?

There seems to be an experiencer. It's like something is taking in the information of experiences. Like an observer.

Not taking in...more like watching.

Thanks,
Renee

[JonathanR]

Hi Renee

. I can see now experiencing is just happening like noticing is just happening. There is no break in it and it's not able to be controlled. There's not something doing the experiencing because it's happening seamlessly without me...oh :). I still need to spend time on the - does there seem to be an experiencer question.

What you were saying here is great. What I want you to look at is this 'experience just happening / noticing just happening'.

See if there is any kind of entity that is watching separately, like a controller in a control room?

Is there a noticer of that which is noticed?


Best wishes,

Jon

[springwater]

Jon,

Is there a noticer of that which is noticed?

Its hard to find a noticer. It seems what I find is thoughts about something observing. It's hard to get around the thoughts. It's just thoughts upon thoughts when I look. It feels like I think and feel that something is there behind the thoughts...the intimate quiet that's always been there. I don't know what it is.

But it feels like I'm starting to lose something. There have been a couple moments where there weren't ideas attached to this body. Like who I was wasn't important anymore and it's like my typical problems associated with this person I saw in the mirror weren't there. For a moment it was scary because what I saw in the mirror wasn't mine anymore (I don't know how to say it).

Thanks Jon,
Renee

[JonathanR]

Hi Renee,

. It seems what I find is thoughts about something observing. It's hard to get around the thoughts. It's just thoughts upon thoughts when I look

Good to see this. Well done!

. But it feels like I'm starting to lose something. There have been a couple moments where there weren't ideas attached to this body. Like who I was wasn't important anymore and it's like my typical problems associated with this person I saw in the mirror weren't there. For a moment it was scary because what I saw in the mirror wasn't mine anymore (I don't know how to say it)

This is all great! Try going to the mirror and take a look. Colours appear as 'reflection', don't they? But is it 'a person', 'me' that is reflected? Or is the 'person' a thought about what is reflected?


Best wishes

Jon

[springwater]

Jon,

Try going to the mirror and take a look. Colours appear as 'reflection', don't they? But is it 'a person', 'me' that is reflected? Or is the 'person' a thought about what is reflected?

Yes colors in the mirror appear as reflection, it's is not a 'me' reflected and yes, the 'person' is a just a thought about what is reflected. It was fun to see a whole different 'person' could be created with the same reflection. Now I'm looking into this solid story of a ''person' I've been cultivating all these years..haha. I mean parts of it could be solid, right?...like birthplace...and other you know factual things. But wow there could be many unnecessary add ons.

Thank you,
Renee

[JonathanR]

Hi Renee

. Yes colors in the mirror appear as reflection, it's is not a 'me' reflected and yes, the 'person' is a just a thought about what is reflected. It was fun to see a whole different 'person' could be created with the same reflection. Now I'm looking into this solid story of a ''person' I've been cultivating all these years..haha

Ha ha. Very good.

Is there a self that can cultivate its self? Its worth looking at this question too.

. But wow there could be many unnecessary add ons.

How do you see the role of these? Do you notice any examples of these from experience?


All best,

Jon

[springwater]

Jon,

Is there a self that can cultivate its self?

No. Cultivating thoughts are like any thought just happening on its own.

But wow there could be many unnecessary add ons.

How do you see the role of these? Do you notice any examples of these from experience?

I was looking at the reflection and seeing the emptiness of the reflection. I was really liking the simplicity of that. Then there are thoughts about the reflection...critical and praising. Then more definitions of who the person is in the reflection...of what they are like etc. So I'm guessing the role of all these thoughts creates the self. Well maybe it doesn't create the self because they are just thoughts. Maybe it seems like there is a belief factor. If there is no control of the thoughts that arise, maybe there's no control if there's a belief in them or not. I don't know.

Thank you,
Renee