Intro

[Eloratea]

Dear all,
Sorry for breaking the rules. Never was much into the rules.
So, here I am open for your confirmation procedure.

I have been through lots of truth-seeking stuff, eastern and western. Spent more than 10 years in spiritual Rosicrucian school. In last two years the question -who am I?- and what is real?- intensified very, very much, leading me from one step to other, breaking down lots of illusion. Tracing JedMcKenna on the net I came upon some of LU blogs. It was very magnetic and made me really focused and see no self. No comment on that realization.
The so much spoken words – nearer than hands and feet get meaning...
Lots of subtle things changed in perception of life and relation to other people and there is a feeling like things are coming into theirs place.
Don’t know if I could be labeled as liberated, but feel awake. It seems that truth was too simple for the complicated mind, but once seen, can’t be unseen, can’t be forgotten. Although different thoughts and feelings pass by and old patterns try to continue their unfolding and make some mess - there is a strong, clearing flow of something universal, powerful, beyond all concepts and boundaries, which needs to be expressed.
I feel it also in this moment of writing.

Thank you for the opportunity of exchange!

[ddb]

hey there.

so how long has it been for you? have there been any confusions in particular that have come up, any old ghosts haunting you from the past of self? do you feel confident, or tentative in this new state? is it really a state for that matter?
what is the strong flow you mention that needs to be expressed? do you have ideas about it, or is it just a phenomenon happening?
how have your rosicrucian beliefs survived? has this experience of awakening confirmed to the core of rosicrucianism, or is it just another mystery school with some aspects of truth, wrapped up in an appealing gnostic package?
has whatever it was that was driving you to seek dropped away? what do you feel motivated to do now?
what do think you would be if liberated, why do you feel you aren't, and what is it then for you to feel that you are now awake?

please know that i'm not coming from any position of authority with these questions, the only right answers are what's actually true for you and that you can see them. and i'm genuinely curious. i'm just trying to get involved a little, and you were one that came up, so maybe we can practice on each other. we can always get someone more experienced to step in if needed.

[Eloratea]

Hey,

Not so long, still trying to sort out what is still valid and useful and what is not anymore.
Feelings of confidence and not confidence for now exchange. For example today was a day with clouds :) With seeing some attachments and expectations unfulfilled, looking at it …

I don't know what is strong flow. It is phenomena and feeling, but yes I also
have some ideas about it. It is kind of drive, and motivation to explore life further, but it is not always in the foreground.
Searching has dropped. And rosicrusianism dropped already before, just not formally. To much mysticism and symbolic vs. reality and direct experience.

I didn't think much in concept of being liberated, but what I feel associates mostly with the feeling of being awake from a dream. From trusting in reality of the story, of the conditioned behavior of imaginary character. More like beginning of something real. Not a final destination.

How it goes for you? :)

[ddb]

yeahmmalright ta.
a month or so for me. at a bit of a loss maybe in what i'm supposed to do with what's left (of myself). maybe still working out what actually IS left.
i joined a rosicrucian mail-order group myself about ten years ago, enough to get the introductory booklets, but i never renewed my membership. i think it was from reading robert anton wilson's illuminatus stuff, i felt like i needed to belong to a group dedicated to enlightenment. but it was just a passing urge for group validation, the solitary search was more my way.
i relate to what you say about this ending to one thing being the beginning of something else, not a final destination. however i can see that for some, the relief of this ending would be enough.
our natural individuality will still have a unique unfolding, but some motivations would be dropped completely. and some stuff still has a momentum to run down, inner patterns and so on.

anyway, i can ask the basic questions that will allow others to see where you're at - is there a self in any sense for you, can you describe what it was that was previously mistaken for a self in you, do you ever feel drawn back into that belief and are you able to see its dynamics, what was the trigger that made it happen beyond just an intellectual understanding, and can you see how it (the belief) gets started in the first place in yourself and humanity in general? (i think that covers it).

and try to limit yourself in your explanation to things that don't require an extra understanding of other concepts, assume you're explaining to a fundamentalist materialist.

[Eloratea]

is there a self in any sense for you, can you describe what it was that was previously mistaken for a self in you,

there is no I, but in a lingual use. Nothing substantial, it was a thought, a vague sense that accompanied motions of the body and perception of the mind; most of the thoughts and feelings, as y byproduct, that grow up little bit out of the proportion :)

do you ever feel drawn back into that belief and are you able to see its dynamics,

I see that sense of self trying also to engage in no-self stuff, but it doesn’t last; it is seen through, sooner or later.

what was the trigger that made it happen beyond just an intellectual understanding

Accepting the possibility that everything really might have been a big misunderstanding, openness, intense focus and than looking and seeing.

can you see how it (the belief) gets started in the first place in yourself and humanity in general? (i think that covers it).

Identification with body-mind activities seems to start in the childhood and to develop by time like a collective hallucination that spreads through generations.
Maybe part of the life development, mechanism for experiencing limitations; than once seen through - game starts in opposite direction, toward freedom.
I feel this self delusion to be connected with passing- of -time perception and no self with now.

Thank you for the interview :)

[ddb]

when you say you see the sense of self trying to engage in no-self stuff, what do you mean?
do you just mean you see that where in reality there is really no self, a self sometimes tries to assert itself, to convince you it exists?

accepting the possibility that everything really might have been a big misunderstanding, openness, intense focus and than looking and seeing.

that's a very commendable attitude.

Maybe part of the life development, mechanism for experiencing limitations...

i might need a little explanation here of what you mean by this. it seems you are saying it might be a conscious limitation that life wants to experience? but then what is the urge to go in the opposite direction, toward freedom, where does that come from?

perhaps you could give a description of the experience of no-self, in this moment, and in operation with life, how it is in interactions with 'others' and so on?
how do you relate to habits now, or to those things previously held as signs of your particular identity?

also at this point could i ask someone else to step in and either confirm or question Eloratea further?
the answer's sound fine to me, but maybe there is some further specific clarity needed for confirmation?

[Eloratea]

i might need a little explanation here of what you mean by this. it seems you are saying it might be a conscious limitation that life wants to experience? but then what is the urge to go in the opposite direction, toward freedom, where does that come from?

The fact is that there is an experience of limitations. And the fact is that there is an experience of urge for truth, for breaking the limitations, for freedom. Rest is a mind-made model that there is one source and one intention behind everything. That there would be no urge for freedom if it wouldn’t exist prior to experience of limitation.
Here and now, no self realization feels like a turning point.
Like a chicken breaking out of the egg into a whole new world. Chicken can relate to eggs and other chickens breaking out of the eggs, but the rest is unknown. Still, there is an inherent program for going further...

perhaps you could give a description of the experience of no-self, in this moment, and in operation with life, how it is in interactions with 'others' and so on?

There is a feeling of greater fluidity and lightness. For example in working environment there is a good feeling of everything being done smoothly without belief in I that has to do something, that needs to have control. Including relations to others. Also more spontaneity and clarity in communication.

[ddb]

cool, i think that you sound pretty clear about this, so i'll try and get the others to confirm you.
in the meantime if you're looking for some more dialogue you can either start another rave here, or have a go on the facebook group -

https://www.facebook.com/groups/241097475942811/

and this group is for more general post-gate discussions

https://www.facebook.com/groups/200033776715393/

which you should qualify for.

remember if you ever are in doubt about this, just look again - what's true?
test it on yourself, or on other's who are willing to look.
and emotions and feelings and so on can go a bit weird after this, but everyone's different.

[James Anderson]

Hi Elo.
Could you tell me some stuff about experience?
What experiences?
What does and doesn't belong to experience?
What are "you" in relation to experience?

[Eloratea]

Hi there,

ddb tnx for links. I am nor currently on the FB.

remember if you ever are in doubt about this, just look again - what's true?
test it on yourself, or on other's who are willing to look.
and emotions and feelings and so on can go a bit weird after this, but everyone's different.

No doubt.
See you

Could you tell me some stuff about experience?
What experiences?
What does and doesn't belong to experience?
What are "you" in relation to experience?

Everything belongs to experience. There is no me, just one big experience including body siting, fingers typing, eyes seeing, thoughts passing.