New practictioner - guess what, i definitely want to awaken

[zenkitties]

Thoughts are more like impressions of reality. Spacious in form, eternally spacious pointing toward what is, but they don't with 100% accuracy point toward what is actually here which is why the mind can't "get it".

You ever hear of the gateless gate in zen. The gate is you! The answer to the gateless gate is that there is no gate! There never was.

You are so close, it can be felt. :)

[SleeplessYogi117]

I'm not sure where to go from here now. We've established intellectually that "I" cannot be found. Yet, why cant no-self be seen? (Notice I'm trying to avoid saying "I" in context)

[zenkitties]

We've established intellectually that "I" cannot be found.

if it is felt it is only intellectual understood, you need to look more closely at it, and really see if it can be found. You have all the tools, now do the digging. I can take you to the edge, but you have to do the work to see it yourself

It's not there, it is a bundle of concepts, beliefs, ideas, and environmental expressions that create a false sense of self. Like a rubber band ball that when every band is pulled away there is nothing in the middle. It gives the appearance of a ball even though there is no ball at all.

[SleeplessYogi117]

I guess i just need to give it time to settle, and observe until "I" gets weaker and weaker and falls away.. ? And start practicing meditation on it again more thoroughly...

[zenkitties]

I guess i just need to give it time to settle, and observe until "I" gets weaker and weaker and falls away.. ? And start practicing meditation on it again more thoroughly...

If that what is felt needs to happen, however none of those things are absolutely necessary. Again another thought saying, "i need this and this and this." Honestly, that stuff doesn't need to be done. In fact you can do this in every day life just looking if there is a you in any activity that is being done or if experiences are just happening.

[SleeplessYogi117]

feel free to keep shooting questions

[zenkitties]

Is there an I anywhere to be found (I reiterate this question because you say you "know" this intellectually, which means you aren't actually looking to see if its true.)

Lets take a look at thoughts, preferable a very negative thought, and lets notice how the body reacts to this thought. Usually when a negative thought comes into play it creates a sensation in the body as it trys to protect itself. From there, other thoughts may arise. Can you see this happening?

What is causing this?

[zenkitties]

oh and is there something you preferred to be called, as to make it more of a personal conversation?

My names Nick, pleasure to meet you. :)

[SleeplessYogi117]

Brian is cool. Yea i haven't been posting the past few days i apologize i've been busy... Ok, so i had a negative thought earlier today. I was at the gym and i looked at myself in the mirror and was upset at the fact that I'm not where i want to be (frivolous, i know, but whatever deal with it)... It's so hard for me to gain muscle and i got this feeling of hopelessness to even try. I remember there being physical sensations along with it, like a feeling of sadness maybe in my face, below my eyes, in my chest and sometimes in my upperback/ neck area. I remember noticing that this negative feeling had arisen, and i quickly allowed it to dissipate by just being mindful of it (as of right now i'm practicing actual freedom method, not sure if your familiar but i use such method when negative feelings arise in 'me')... The cause of the negative feeling was 'I' in the most superficial way... 'I' was worried about how 'I' looked, how i should look/how i want to look, and then 'I' thoughts about how 'I' wasnt good enough in one way or another to achieve said goal

[zenkitties]

Hey brian,

The cause of the negative feeling was 'I' in the most superficial way... 'I' was worried about how 'I' looked, how i should look/how i want to look, and then 'I' thoughts about how 'I' wasnt good enough in one way or another to achieve said goal

So when this thought happened, was there any thinker or did this arise based on an exerience of seeing, followed by a belief that, the body has to look a certain way, then followed by thoughts, that then created a sensation, which then created another thought.

See how this happens without a controller? Thoughts just tag onto each other, and seemingly come from knowhere.

Take a Look matey and get back to me with what you find.

[SleeplessYogi117]

i understand all of this. i dont know if this is going to work for me. having someone point out what i already understand seems useless right now. I believe i am going to have to just investigate my own reality until realization occurs.

[zenkitties]

i understand all of this. i dont know if this is going to work for me.

Who understand this, another thought? the i don't know part sounds more like a distraction from actually looking then actually wanting to just look.

There is still separation there in that comment where if investigated, it would be seen that there is no separation, that there is just seeing, and understanding happening... this is all done within the story of everything going on.

Empty the cup, too many thoughts are competing to say i already understand it instead of fundamentally just looking and seeing it with honesty.

Like a rose, is it really a rose? Or is is just like thoughts and the story of "you". Its just abundle of sight sensory inputs, along with smell sensations, along with thought input, that creates the sense that a rose is a rose.

Its just as illusory as that you, that is claimed to be a separate thing.