Wispered Dreams

[Sarah7]

Morning Ormus

I would say yes, if possible, because isn't autopilot an immersion in thought streams, imagined conversations, etc. to the exclusion of awareness. I would prefer to be aware of what is in the close environment and of what the body is actually doing/experiencing than to be focused on imaginings.

Is that a thought about? Or direct experience? Are you not aware at that time? It just maybe not what thoughts say you should be aware of? Have a look?
Do you control when getting lost in thoughts happens or even when it is noticed you were?

Intentional problem solving can bring thoughts of solutions but generally thoughts are just thoughts. They come and go unbidden, and where they come from, or where they go, I have no idea, and no amount of looking on my part seems to find them or a point of origin. I generally try to ignore them so as not to give them any emotional power or magnetize more of the same.

And do you ignore? Are you in control of that?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Ormus]

Hi Sarah,

Is that a thought about? Or direct experience?

That is a direct experience, at least for me. An example would be when watching a really good movie and not realizing that I had eaten all of my popcorn. Another could be not planning to do things in the daily grind of life, like I must do this, that, and the other thing, by that time and instead just addressing things as they are presented to be done. Then finding that everything necessary to do had been done perfectly on time. A most desirable way to go through the day.
Once, when I realized that I had been driving for 20 minutes and realized that I did not remember the journey, I also realized that I did not remember the thoughts that had so engrossed me. So what was I really doing during that time. I decided to be more mindful.

Are you not aware at that time?

This is difficult for me to answer because during watching TV, I definitely was not aware of being aware. During the day of no planning, I am definitely aware. During the drive, I was horrified to realize that I was not aware.

It just maybe not what thoughts say you should be aware of? Have a look?

I can see that thoughts rule and that thoughts of being aware and actually being aware are two different things. Thoughts tell me that I must always be aware of the body and what it is doing. Thoughts of being aware of the body seem to be the only way that I can actually experience the body. I look at my fingers while I type and try to be aware of them but I seem to only be able to have thoughts about being aware of them. If I can't be directly aware of my fingers, what about the rest of my body? This does not make for happy thinking!

Do you control when getting lost in thoughts happens or even when it is noticed you were?

I can't control anything, can I? I used to think that by being mindful I could make some small changes but I realize that I only thought that I could.

And do you ignore? Are you in control of that?

No, but I try to be mindful with a large dash of hope. I am having difficulty here because I keep coming up against thoughts. Everything seems made of thoughts, like a sea of thoughts and what I consider to be me looks like two cartoon flat eyeballs looking out at a sea of thoughts swimming around like sharks in the ocean. But it is not even thoughts, as such, but thoughts OF. I realize that I am just a thought of, that everything is just a thought of, but where does awareness come in? Is awareness just aware of the thoughts?
Thank you so much
Ormus xxx

[Sarah7]

Hi Ormus

I can't control anything, can I?

A question, or are you clear here? Have a really good look and bring anything you think you are in control of here for us to look. Are you in control of doing for instance? What about free will? Choice? Decisions? Etc.

but where does awareness come? Is awareness just aware do the the thoughts?

Can a thought think?
What power does a thought have? What can a thought do? What does a thought know outside of thought?
Is there something that notices thought? Does it mind what is thought? Or even if thought does or doesn't happen? Does it mind anything? Does it have preferences? Look.
Hugs S xxx

[Ormus]

Hi Sarah,

A question, or are you clear here? Have a really good look and bring anything you think you are in control of here for us to look. Are you in control of doing for instance? What about free will? Choice? Decisions? Etc.

Sorry, a rhetorical question. Having seen that I don't/can't control anything, I have had to realize that my entire 'past' has never been about what I chose, or wanted, but about a kind of automatic 'falling into' the path that was taken and that there never was any other choice or 'I' to choose. All the energy used contemplating what is the right thing to do, path to take, etc. has just been wasted – what a laugh! No control of doing, no free will, no choice, no decisions and definitely no I to make them.

Can a thought think?

No.

What power does a thought have?

None.

What can a thought do?

Nothing really.

What does a thought know outside of thought?

Nothing.

Is there something that notices thought?

I can't find anything unless it is another thought.

Does it mind what is thought?

Don't understand what 'it' is.

Or even if thought does or doesn't happen?

Don't understand the question.

Does it mind anything? Does it have preferences? Look.

I don't see anything that notices thoughts. In my experience, thoughts are just there, they rise up and then fall away. Am I missing something?
Thank you so much
Ormus xxx

[Sarah7]

Hi Ormus

Nothing really.

Are you clear here?

Is there something that notices thought? Is thought noticed?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Ormus]

Hi Sarah,

Nothing really.
Are you clear here?

Yes, very clear.

Is there something that notices thought? Is thought noticed?

I sat down and looked into this and I can find nothing that notices thought, however thought is noticed, by what, I don't know. I can find nothing there.
Thanks so much
Ormus xxx

[Sarah7]

Hey Ormus

.....however thought is noticed, by what, I don't know. I can find nothing there.

EXCELLENT!
Ok so now see if (and for the sake of giving no thing a name I like to call this 'that which notices') minds what is happening....ever. If it minds thoughts, or no thoughts, or emotions, or whatever arises. Go look. Drop in anytime through your day. Is it bothered or does it mind. I'm using 'im' loosely there to! Lol. ;)

You experience thoughts, but do you experience the content? Is the content real?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Ormus]

Hi Sarah,

Ok so now see if (and for the sake of giving no thing a name I like to call this 'that which notices') minds what is happening....ever. If it minds thoughts, or no thoughts, or emotions, or whatever arises. Go look. Drop in anytime through your day. Is it bothered or does it mind. I'm using 'im' loosely there to! Lol. ;)

No, it doesn't mind thoughts or emotion or whatever arises, it is just aware of all of these things.

You experience thoughts, but do you experience the content? Is the content real?

Yes, thoughts are experienced but I cannot see how the contents of can be real.
Thank you so much
Ormus xxx

[Sarah7]

Morning

No, it doesn't mind thoughts or emotion or whatever arises, it is just aware of all of these things.

Excellent noticing. I will come back to this. OK.

Lets look at sensory experience and separation.

Gaze at an object. Turn up that inner magnifying glass to observe what's happening in direct experience. In seeing, what is being experienced? What is happening when "seeing" is happening? What is doing the seeing? What is being seen? What does "seeing" consists of? Describe the actual, direct experience of seeing. Do you first perceive the object using some other sense, and then see it later? Can you find a dividing line between the object and the seeing of it? Or are the object and the seeing of it inseparable? Is there an entity called "you" experiencing the seeing? Can you find a dividing line between "you" and seeing? Is it an accurate description of direct experience? Are there really three entities there in direct experience, an "I" and seer and an object? Or is there only seeing? What do you see about the thought, "I'm seeing that object"?

Try it with various sights e.g. out of the window at a distant view. See if you can find a way to separate the object from the seeing and the seeing from the seer. Where does one start and the other end? How many senses are there here - 1 or more?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Ormus]

Hi Sarah,

Gaze at an object. Turn up that inner magnifying glass to observe what's happening in direct experience. In seeing, what is being experienced?

In seeing there is awareness of shapes and colour.

What is happening when "seeing" is happening?

Actual experience of seeing is happening.

What is doing the seeing?

Awareness is doing the seeing.

What is being seen?

What is being seen is colour and shape and those are labelled by thoughts.

What does "seeing" consists of?

Seeing consists of colour and form.

Describe the actual, direct experience of seeing.

The actual, direct experience of seeing is awareness of colour and form.

Do you first perceive the object using some other sense, and then see it later?

I see it first.

Can you find a dividing line between the object and the seeing of it?

No, the object and the seeing of it are the one.

Or are the object and the seeing of it inseparable?

They are inseparable.

Is there an entity called "you" experiencing the seeing?

There is only awareness of the seeing.

Can you find a dividing line between "you" and seeing?

No. There is no dividing line between perceived and perceiver.

Is it an accurate description of direct experience?

I don't understand this question.

Are there really three entities there in direct experience, an "I" and seer and an object?

No, it is not possible to locate three entities in direct experience as the 'I', seer and object are one. Or is there only seeing?
There is only seeing.

What do you see about the thought, "I'm seeing that object"?

There is no 'I' observing the object, it is just being seen.

Try it with various sights e.g. out of the window at a distant view. See if you can find a way to separate the object from the seeing and the seeing from the seer. Where does one start and the other end?

I tried this exercise a number of times during the day and I found it is not possible to separate the object from the seeing and the seeing from the seer. It is just 'seen' as in a picture. I cannot find a start or end as there is no separation between the two.

How many senses are there here - 1 or more?

I can only find one sense in operation here.
Thank you so much
Ormus xxx

[Sarah7]

Morning!

Awareness is doing the seeing.

And can that be separated from the seeing?

I tried this exercise a number of times during the day and I found it is not possible to separate the object from the seeing and the seeing from the seer. It is just 'seen' as in a picture. I cannot find a start or end as there is no separation between the two.

Excellent.
So onto hearing....
Notice the sounds you’re hearing, like the chirping of the birds. Notice the habitual thought, "Those are birds." Notice the habitual thought, "I hear that." Now just pay attention to how hearing happens. Take your time with it. Can you find a dividing line between the sound and the hearing of the sound? Are you doing the hearing? Or is it truer to say that hearing is just happening? Then look to see whether there's a dividing line between the hearing of it and a separate entity, a "you," doing the hearing. In other words, what does it mean when you say, "I'm hearing that sound"? Are there really three entities there in direct experience, an "I" and hearing and a sound? Or is there just one experience of hearing, with no one as a hearer. Look closely. Try it with various sounds. See if you can find a way to separate the sound from the hearing and the hearing from the hearer. Where does one start and the other end? So what do you see about the thought, "I'm hearing that sound"? Is it an accurate description of direct experience?
What is a noise? Is that a label also? Is the sound there? Can you really know?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Ormus]

Hi Sarah,

Can you find a dividing line between the sound and the hearing of the sound?

No, I cannot discern a dividing line between the sound and the hearing of sound.

Are you doing the hearing?

I cannot find an 'I' to do the hearing. It is more like a hollow space, an unfocused nothingness.

Or is it truer to say that hearing is just happening?

It is definitely just hearing happening.

In other words, what does it mean when you say, "I'm hearing that sound"?

It means that hearing is happening and awareness of hearing is happening.

Are there really three entities there in direct experience, an "I" and hearing and a sound?

I find that in direct experience there is only one entity experiencing.

See if you can find a way to separate the sound from the hearing and the hearing from the hearer. Where does one start and the other end?

There is no start or end. It just is.

So what do you see about the thought, "I'm hearing that sound"? Is it an accurate description of direct experience?

It is not an accurate description of direct experience because that is three separate labels: I, hearing and whatever sound, when in reality it is all the same experiencing.

What is a noise? Is that a label also? Is the sound there? Can you really know?

I do not know what a noise is; imagination, label, a thought about a thought? I certainly do not know if the sound is there or if there is a sound to hear. I do not know anything for sure.
Thank you so much
Ormus xxx

[Sarah7]

Morning. So onto touch.

Touch the table (or any object) with your eyes shut (or open). Pretend like it’s the first time you have ever touched a table. Go straight to the raw sensation/perception. What is your direct experience of this ‘table’? List your direct experience. Is it senses again? Is it thoughts again? Look very closely. Which comes first the senses or the thoughts?
Does the sensation of touching come with a shape, density, weight, size, colour, age or function? Does this sensation come with a ‘not me’ label or ‘other’ label? Is it one sensation/perception or two?
Look at how thoughts try and take over, try and explain, try and prove. Notice your memories or references with which you compare the experience.
Sit with these sensations. Look at them. Look at the labelling e.g. table, hand. Look at the thoughts or story that attach at the end of this list if any. What is your direct experience of these words? Do they exist outside of thought? Are they sensations again? Are they just thoughts again? Look very closely. Which comes first the sensation or the thoughts? Don’t pay attention to the thoughts just look at what they do, when they come in.
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Ormus]

Hi Sarah

List your direct experience. Is it senses again? Is it thoughts again? Look very closely. Which comes first the senses or the thoughts?

My direct experience is that the sensation came first and then the labeling and thoughts.

Does the sensation of touching come with a shape, density, weight, size, colour, age or function?

No, just the sensation of touching, the rest come as thoughts after.

Does this sensation come with a ‘not me’ label or ‘other’ label? Is it one sensation/perception or two?

No, it is one sensation followed by thoughts.

Look at the thoughts or story that attach at the end of this list if any. What is your direct experience of these words? Do they exist outside of thought? Are they sensations again? Are they just thoughts again?

I cannot find direct experience of these words. They are just thoughts, not sensations, just labels and they do not exist outside of thought.

Look very closely. Which comes first the sensation or the thoughts?

I find that the sensation comes first then the thoughts.
Thank you so much
Ormus xxx

[Sarah7]

Hey
Sit on a chair with your eyes closed. Feel the Direct Experience of sitting there. Notice thoughts thinking, labelling and explaining. Notice memory too. Notice sensations experiencing. Notice the sensation of bottom on chair – what is that – a thought? Notice the ‘me’ ‘mine labels e.g. this is my bottom – but look closely at that sensation labelling – is it yours, or just coming and going along with thoughts, ever changing. Is it the thought that wants to own? How many sensations do you notice? 2? One bottom sensation, and one chair sensation? How is that possible? Where does one sensation end and another begin? Locate that line. Can you feel that line? Or is that thought? Can you sense that line – or is that thought explaining the sensation?

Eyes closed. Turn your attention to your skin. Do you have Direct Experience of it being outside?
Hugs Sarah xxx