Trackless Bird

[s-p-a-c-e]

Lately, my feeling is that my hammering away at this is reinforcing the idea of a separate self instead of loosening it up.

Stop hammering.

Take a look.

Do you see a who hammering?

Many thanks,
John

[Periwinkle]

Do you see a who hammering?

When I look, no, I don't. But this doesn't affect the gut sense of a who.

I take that back, sort of - there is an observation of an absence when I find no "who" there, but once the intentional observing ceases, that gut sense of "who" is still there.

[s-p-a-c-e]

Do you see a who hammering?

When I look, no, I don't. But this doesn't affect the gut sense of a who.

I take that back, sort of - there is an observation of an absence when I find no "who" there, but once the intentional observing ceases, that gut sense of "who" is still there.

Ok, great. That gut sense. :)

There no need to get rid of any gut sense.
You can even keep the gut sense of "who".
Can't say fairer than that. :)

And neither this gut sense, or the label "who", represent a real being.

Much love,
John

[Periwinkle]

Good morning John,

I think that I am done, at least for the time being, with talking about this on a daily basis. The inquiry is not over by any means, but I think I need to just sit with this for a while and let it percolate.

It might be that the me is in the process of collapsing. Something has definitely shifted and there are momentary glimpses of something?/nothing? There is almost zero drive to make any life or career-type things happen, and that dreamlike state I described before is more frequent. Life goes on as before. I cook, go to work, clean the toilet, play with my daughter, but I have to say I'm sort of bored - there was definitely a kind of excitement about thinking I was in control, and planning what actions I was going to take next. My "me" is definitely still here, but in a less robust way. I'm curious about where this is all going.

So, rather than our daily conversation, would you be okay with me checking in with you from time to time if I need a pointer or to help me diagnose what's happening?

Thank you,
Skye

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hey Skye,

At the end of the day, this is not about I or me or whatever, but about life :) and the enjoyment of living, so your direction sounds mighty fine.

With much love,
John

[Periwinkle]

Hi, John. Thanks again for all your thoughtful help and your time! Greatly appreciated. It's been a very interesting experience!

Enjoy your summer! I'll be in touch.

love,
Skye

[Periwinkle]

Good morning John,

Hope you're well!

An update.

I continued the work since we last spoke, and it had gotten more and more urgent. Then last Wednesday night I unexpectedly had a definitive experience of no-self. It was completely unlike what I had experienced in January, or that one time I described to you of seeing without a seer.

I was with some friends and we were sitting around talking before dinner. I glanced down at my legs when out of the blue there was a deeply profound absence of me. I was experiencing my surroundings but there was not a trace of me there.

I'm not sure how long it lasted, maybe 5 or 10 seconds. The best words I can use for it are blankness, or nothing. It was like a thick blanket had dropped on the me, and it was just gone.

It gradually ended, and it took me a minute or two to reinsert myself back into the environment, as the recognition of what had just happened dawned on me. As you said, we are given what we can handle, and this was just perfect. Gratitude.

Outside of a lightness that has colored everything since that time, the upshot has been a "me" that is pretty damaged - no doubt still there (and claiming the experience, the bastard!) but I can say now it has been seen through. I'm immensely curious and eager to see where this is going. Boredom gone!

Thoughts?

Thank you, John.
Skye

[s-p-a-c-e]

Good morning John,

Hope you're well!

Good thank you. Been decorating. :D

An update.

I continued the work since we last spoke, and it had gotten more and more urgent. Then last Wednesday night I unexpectedly had a definitive experience of no-self. It was completely unlike what I had experienced in January, or that one time I described to you of seeing without a seer.

I was with some friends and we were sitting around talking before dinner. I glanced down at my legs when out of the blue there was a deeply profound absence of me. I was experiencing my surroundings but there was not a trace of me there.

I'm not sure how long it lasted, maybe 5 or 10 seconds. The best words I can use for it are blankness, or nothing. It was like a thick blanket had dropped on the me, and it was just gone.

It gradually ended, and it took me a minute or two to reinsert myself back into the environment, as the recognition of what had just happened dawned on me. As you said, we are given what we can handle, and this was just perfect. Gratitude.

:) That's cool - and a really nice description - thank you.

Outside of a lightness that has colored everything since that time, the upshot has been a "me" that is pretty damaged - no doubt still there (and claiming the experience, the bastard!) but I can say now it has been seen through. I'm immensely curious and eager to see where this is going. Boredom gone!

You can indeed say it has been seen through.

It's the start of a new chapter, a new adventure. :)

You know what, its damn exciting to see. And so, my suggestion is to relax, and yet be alert, to the experience of being. Being around nature can be a good place to spend time with this new lightness.

The tendency is often to interpret it within the context of a teaching, but if you can, don't do that. :) Stay open,

W I D E . . . O P E N,

and enjoy exploring the feeling of an experience that has been touched.

With much love and a leap into the air a la Piglet,
John

[Periwinkle]

You can indeed say it has been seen through.

It's the start of a new chapter, a new adventure. :)

You know what, its damn exciting to see. And so, my suggestion is to relax, and yet be alert, to the experience of being. Being around nature can be a good place to spend time with this new lightness.

The tendency is often to interpret it within the context of a teaching, but if you can, don't do that. :) Stay open,

W I D E . . . O P E N,

and enjoy exploring the feeling of an experience that has been touched.

With much love and a leap into the air a la Piglet,
John

Remarkable. I still can’t believe it.

It happened in the perfect place - with trusted friends - and at a perfect time - on vacation in a wilderness setting - so I was able to do as you suggested and spent many hours in the forest.

And thank you for the advice to just be open. I’m finding that it is a natural pose to take, feeling like my arms are perpetually outstretched, head back, relaxed.

Gratitude keeps flooding in. To be released from the bondage of me - there are no words. And when the me does pop up, I’m finding I’m able to do a quick ninja move to disarm it.

Thank you for everything, John. Thanks for staying with me, kicking my ass or shoring me up with love as necessary. You, and LU, rock.

love,
Skye

[s-p-a-c-e]

Remarkable. I still can’t believe it.

It happened in the perfect place - with trusted friends - and at a perfect time - on vacation in a wilderness setting - so I was able to do as you suggested and spent many hours in the forest.

And thank you for the advice to just be open. I’m finding that it is a natural pose to take, feeling like my arms are perpetually outstretched, head back, relaxed.

Gratitude keeps flooding in. To be released from the bondage of me - there are no words. And when the me does pop up, I’m finding I’m able to do a quick ninja move to disarm it.

Cool :) - have a chill for a couple of days, and let it flow through.

the me is ok, just a butterfly landing on a petal, before flitting off again. :)

So, post in a couple of days, to share whatever comes up.

With warmest wishes,
John

[Periwinkle]

Good morning, John.

Things have settled down a bit. Back to the day-to-day. Trying to stay open and relaxed.

Nothing new has happened, other than a slightly increased dream-like quality to things, and discovering myself as more of a part of the dream than as its driver.

I didn't expect to see as quickly as I did. I had pretty low expectations, so it came as quite a shock the relative ease with which it happened.

In my case, stumbling across so many ordinary people online who had the "me" fall away made it seem possible. I don't think I would have made the attempt otherwise.

Longing to return to that glimpse I had, but now that it's happened once, I'm content to let it unfold again in its own time.

Having witnessed the fact of the non-existence of the me, it changes my perspective of so many things. Fascinating.

Desires I had that were "me" driven have pretty much dried up, so I'm curious about what's next.

Thank you,
Skye

[s-p-a-c-e]

Things have settled down a bit. Back to the day-to-day. Trying to stay open and relaxed.

Good to hear.

Nothing new has happened, other than a slightly increased dream-like quality to things, and discovering myself as more of a part of the dream than as its driver.

I didn't expect to see as quickly as I did. I had pretty low expectations, so it came as quite a shock the relative ease with which it happened.

When ripe, the fruit falls.

In my case, stumbling across so many ordinary people online who had the "me" fall away made it seem possible. I don't think I would have made the attempt otherwise.

Quite, the power of example can't be denied.

Longing to return to that glimpse I had, but now that it's happened once, I'm content to let it unfold again in its own time.

Great point. It will unfold in all sorts of ways, and the joy is to live that gentle unfolding.

Traditions tend to get hung up on states and achievements, on this and that, on holding on tight to insight, which is funny.

Having witnessed the fact of the non-existence of the me, it changes my perspective of so many things. Fascinating.

Wonderful. It's rather like a single drop of purple dye dropping into a pale of water. We don't need to keep going back to the dye. :D

Desires I had that were "me" driven have pretty much dried up, so I'm curious about what's next.

Ok, yes, this happens, like a rebalancing around a new centreless centre. :)

What's next is what's next.

There are generally two approaches to take:

1. The approach of fitting into dogma.
2. The approach of enjoying life.

Approach 1) is by far and away the most popular for the simple reason it provides quick comforting explanations along with a whole community of self-supporting sheep. This is a closed system.

Approach 2) is by far and away the most enjoyable and fascinating for the simple reason that it is open to life, of life and the love of life. This is an open system.

Shall we carry on and explore for a bit? :)

Much love,
John

[Periwinkle]

Shall we carry on and explore for a bit?

Yes, I would like that.

Several things I'm noticing.

Life seems to be easier. I am less worried about outcomes, and there seems to be more space for just living. It's becoming easier to love people.

It is rare and exciting for me to have finally made some actual progress in my decades of spiritual striving, however, I'm finding that the "me" is strongly claiming the glimpse that I had, and wondering what to do with it. Write about it, make a video about it, tell others about it - become more special because of it. So far, I've resisted the urge and you and my wife are the only ones I've spoken about it with. But it remains as an annoying distraction that I wish I didn't have.

Also, i've been wishing that the glimpse would return yet feeling that there is nothing that I can do to cause it. It popped up, seemingly out of the blue, after a couple months of inquiry, so what I'm tempted to do is to turn up the heat and inquire harder, which I realize is probably counterproductive.

I feel that these are probably small problems which will eventually take care of themselves, as I've just taken the first few baby steps at the beginning of this journey, but I would be interested to hear your take on them.

Thanks,
Skye

[s-p-a-c-e]

Shall we carry on and explore for a bit?

Yes, I would like that.

great. :)

Several things I'm noticing.

Life seems to be easier. I am less worried about outcomes, and there seems to be more space for just living. It's becoming easier to love people.

*thumbs up

It is rare and exciting for me to have finally made some actual progress in my decades of spiritual striving, however, I'm finding that the "me" is strongly claiming the glimpse that I had, and wondering what to do with it.

Watching 'claiming' activity, learning how it works/ticks, inquiring into motives, is all part of the fun.

Thing is, there isn't even a: the 'me' to claim anything is there. Which is annoying.

Write about it, make a video about it, tell others about it - become more special because of it. So far, I've resisted the urge and you and my wife are the only ones I've spoken about it with. But it remains as an annoying distraction that I wish I didn't have.

I understand the urge, but those you tell won't have a clue what you're on about. Bragging is so 1970's. :)

Also, i've been wishing that the glimpse would return yet feeling that there is nothing that I can do to cause it. It popped up, seemingly out of the blue, after a couple months of inquiry, so what I'm tempted to do is to turn up the heat and inquire harder, which I realize is probably counterproductive.

Play with perception. For example, look around the room. What you're seeing is a perception of the room. Which I'm sure is well-decorated. Now, this is a kind of spontaneous meditation, but play with retreating from the perception, withdrawing intent to stick to that perception. Keep retreating until the room has an unknown flavour to it.
- don't take these words too literally, just play loose, see what happens.

I feel that these are probably small problems which will eventually take care of themselves, as I've just taken the first few baby steps at the beginning of this journey, but I would be interested to hear your take on them.

All good, it unfolds in all sorts of ways.

Explore the exercise above, and we'll go from there. It may fall completely flat :) and that's ok too.

With best wishes,
John

[Periwinkle]

Play with perception. For example, look around the room. What you're seeing is a perception of the room. Which I'm sure is well-decorated. Now, this is a kind of spontaneous meditation, but play with retreating from the perception, withdrawing intent to stick to that perception. Keep retreating until the room has an unknown flavour to it.
- don't take these words too literally, just play loose, see what happens.

I've played with this from time to time over the last few days, and it seems pretty easy to get the the "unknown flavor." As I've mentioned before, what I've been calling a dreamlike quality to things is just that, I can sort of switch back and forth between recognizing familiar surroundings and then observing the environment like a photograph or movie.

Thanks,
Skye