Love&Liberate

[Multipass]

Hello Experienceit,
Very good perceptions. I love the wow moments.

1 min is too long I can't stop them for like 30 seconds.

Are “you” stopping them from coming, or do a break just appear to happen?
If “I” is in the control, then how can it manage the break to be 30 sec and not 1 min?

I have a doubt, well we can't stop thinking but sometimes, not always we can decide what to think about. Say I want to think about oranges. So, is there someone who is choosing.

Do you know what the thought will be before it arrives?
Wait for next thought, see what comes up. Did you know that it will be that one?
Is there an “I” doing the decisions or choosing? Look carefully.

When you look these, the last you wrote will be solved as well.

Waiting for your observations.

[experienceit]

Are “you” stopping them from coming, or do a break just appear to happen?
If “I” is in the control, then how can it manage the break to be 30 sec and not 1 min?

Well the break does happen automatically, there is no one who is stopping the thought. If I would have been in control,I might have stopped them from coming and would have focused on what I wanted.
One big revelation Wow!!! Thank You.
But I am still not getting, where these thoughts arise from?

Do you know what the thought will be before it arrives?
Wait for next thought, see what comes up. Did you know that it will be that one?
Is there an “I” doing the decisions or choosing? Look

No, I don' t know what the next thought would be, before it actually comes.
So these thoughts come automatically,randomly, with no control.
Is there an I making an decision, well a decision is made on analyzing the pros and cons which are again thoughts.
It is not very clear if there is an decision maker.
If, I open the fridge I can decide what to eat.

Thanks
Experienceit

[Multipass]

Hi Experienceit,

where these thoughts arise from?

Wait for the next thought and see where is it coming from.
Actually do it.

Do thoughts come from another thought?
Are they coming in bunches or one thought at a time?
Is there a container of thoughts?
Is “I” a thought or a thinker?
Is “I” thought a special thought, without which there are no other thoughts?

Keep on looking until you are sure.

[experienceit]

Wait for the next thought and see where is it coming from.
Actually do it.

So I tried this and closed my eyes to see where the next thought is coming from. I could hear some buzzing sound outside the window, which was absent all the while or maybe I was not aware of the sound. Thoughts started coming in of what that sound was coming, should I go out and check that and I was trying to figure out the sound.

Similarly, when we are walking across a bakery and smell fresh cookies or chocolate, we are tempted to buy.

Otherwise, thoughts come from past memories or about the future, even if it is about future, thoughts have a refrence to past.

Sometimes, intuition is there as someone would call us today and that person does call us.

So thoughts can be categorized as

1. based on exterior factors.
2. based on past memory
3. intuition

Do thoughts come from another thought? Are they coming in bunches or one thought at a time?

Sometimes yes they do come from another thought. Like a chain of thoughts. Thinking about trying to figure out something. It feels like they are coming in bunches because they are coming so fast, but they are one thought at a time.

Is there a container of thoughts?

Not very sure of this, but also can't deny, seems like yeah they are dripping from a leaky container, leaking rate varies a lot. But thoughts due to exterior factors are not coming from thecontainer.

While, how we react to an exterior thought might have some reference to past. Say, looking at a cockroach two persons can react in a completely different way.

Is “I” a thought or a thinker?

Seems interesting, I cannot be a thinker because
1. 'I' has no idea what thoughts are coming next
2. Cannot stop thoughts or give a break to the thoughts.
So is' I' just a thought?
I am a man. I am good at maths. I am 6ft tall.
Well isn't there truth in above sentence, they don't look like thoughts to me.

Is “I” thought a special thought, without which there are no other thoughts?

Wow so lovely flowers, with nice fragrance. Where is 'I' in it?

Thanks
Experienceit

[Multipass]

Hi there,

I like your forum name, Experienceit, since it guides you exactly on what to do.

You are still writing a lot from knowledge and speculation. Remember that you are LOOKING at whether there is separate “I” to be found, or not.

When thinking happens, is there anything else than thoughts?

Let me know what you find.

[experienceit]

Hello Multipass,

I am really sorry, so used to conventional way of analyzing.
Will try to look directly.

When thinking happens, is there anything else than thoughts?

When thinking is happening, there are thoughts and something or someone observing the thoughts.

Thanks
Experienceit

[Multipass]

Hi,
Don´t worry. I will point you back to looking :D

there are thoughts and something or someone observing the thoughts.

Is there a separate "I,me,self" entity observing? Look where and point it.

Can this observer or “I” be found:

As a sound through hearing?
As an odor through smelling?
As a taste through tasting?
As a sensation or feeling through body?
As an image through seeing?
As a thought/label?

Look through all the options and describe with your own words what is real for you.

[experienceit]

Is there a separate "I,me,self" entity observing? Look where and point it.

The separate I or self feels like it is, within the boundaries of the body. Sounds can be perceived through ears, vision through eyes etc. Even though, I tried it cannot be pointed like here it is within the body.

If it was not separate,Why, I can only observe sensations, feelings only in this particular body, not any other body.
Can you please clarify this.

Can this observer or “I” be found:

As a sound through hearing?
As an odor through smelling?
As a taste through tasting?
As a sensation or feeling through body?
As an image through seeing?
As a thought/label?

No, it cannot be found. There is hearing, smell, taste, sensations and thoughts are going on continuously. Viewed from one point it looks like all these things are happening automatically, with no one actually in control.
But to whom are all these things happening, Is there actually no one?

The 'I' does seem like more of a thought now. Oh, yeah it actually is a thought.
Is it for real?
OK, thoughts are going on, in those thoughts one of the thought is 'I'.
So is 'I' just a thought not for real.

Multipass, this looks a bit difficult to swallow its a bit like a shock. It's getting heavy for now.
Am I looking correctly or am I drawing from the past.

Well, Thanks Multipass you have been great!!
Experienceit

[Multipass]

Hello Experienceit,

Great looking!

The separate I or self feels like it is, within the boundaries of the body.

You told it is a feeling, right? So what makes the feeling to be “I”?
The body has ability to sense feelings and sensations. What does the “I” have to do with it?

If it was not separate,Why, I can only observe sensations, feelings only in this particular body, not any other body.
Can you please clarify this.

Look at this question.
We are looking for the separate “I,me,self”. Can you point that?
What about body, can you point it?

Oh, yeah it actually is a thought.
Is it for real?
OK, thoughts are going on, in those thoughts one of the thought is 'I'.
So is 'I' just a thought not for real.

You are right on point. It is only a thought. Only a label, a word. No different from labels: university, nation, country..
Can you see here is no actual thing that word university points to?
It's a concept, convenient in communication. But when you look for university all you find is other concepts like building, classes, students, teachers, learning..

So in reality there is no I,me,self to be found. There never was and never will be.
Look as long as you see this for sure. Describe how this makes you feel and what arises.

Keep on the great observing.

[experienceit]

The body has ability to sense feelings and sensations. What does the “I” have to do with it?

Exactly, the body has awareness to sense feelings, emotions.
So there is awareness in the body,which is limited to the body.
Now, Am I this awareness,which becomes aware of everything?

Or, the awareness is just there like thoughts?
Can't say clearly, whether it is me or not.

We are looking for the separate “I,me,self”. Can you point that?
What about body, can you point it?

No, the separate self cannot be found or located within the body. And the feeling of i am the body appears
as just another feeling.
Whatever it is, is within the boundaries of the body.
while, the body appears separate from everything, outside the body.

You are right on point. It is only a thought. Only a label, a word. No different from labels: university, nation, country

It's clear now that the thought 'I' exist is just a thought. Thinking stops, I disappears.
Although, it is taking some time to sink in and accept, but that's fine.

So in reality there is no I,me,self to be found. There never was and never will be.
Look as long as you see this for sure. Describe how this makes you feel and what arises.

It just makes me very quiet, no trying to figure out, no processing of the above fact possible.
What if, it actually is true? Cannot be grasped by the mind.

It's un-describable, there's some acceptance but not complete.



Thanks
Experienceit

[Multipass]

Hello there,
What is awareness?

So there is awareness in the body,which is limited to the body.

Can awareness as it is called, be limited to a body?
What about the rest of the life forms appearing?
Can awareness be separate?
What makes separation?
Look into these.

Now, Am I this awareness,which becomes aware of everything?
Can't say clearly, whether it is me or not.

Like you already saw, the “I,me,self” is a word.
Can a word/thought be aware of something?

there's some acceptance but not complete.

What is there, to not accept what is?
Can you change what i,s (thoughts, feelings, circumstances etc) with the thoughts of not accepting something?

Look closely within all these, and let me know what is found.

[experienceit]

Hello,

What is awareness?

Which becomes aware of everything, sounds, thoughts, feelings, emotions.

Can awareness as it is called, be limited to a body?
What about the rest of the life forms appearing?

There is awareness, in other life forms, like animals, trees, ants, birds.
But the awareness seems restricted to their individual bodies.
I am aware of what's happening inside this body not any other body.

Can awareness be separate?

May be or may be not, can't say convincingly both appear true, viewed from different angle.
On one hand, there is awareness, which is same in everybody, but it is restricted in their bodies, whether it
is separate or connected, can't say.

What makes separation?

It appears as drawing physical boundaries makes separation,
but this can be untrue since putting up a boundary between nations or houses doesn't change anything.
Similarly, what is outside the physical body may appear separate, but it might not be the case.

So, in reality there might not be anything as separate.
Really, is it so?
Does, everything just appears to be separate. Can you help me to get it clear?

Now, Am I this awareness,which becomes aware of everything?
Can't say clearly, whether it is me or not.

Like you already saw, the “I,me,self” is a word.
Can a word/thought be aware of something

No, a thought cannot be aware of something.
So 'I' am not awareness, it is just a thought.'
There is simply awareness.

What is there, to not accept what is?
Can you change what i,s (thoughts, feelings, circumstances etc) with the thoughts of not accepting something?

Yeah initially the thoughts were there, that if 'I' accept there is no self, I won't be able to change the way things are.
Like, there would be no motivation to do things, no one accountable or responsible.

In fact, the circumstances or anything won't change by accepting.
It's becoming clear that the self is an illusion.

Thanks Multipass, Have a nice day.
Experienceit

[Multipass]

Hello Experienceit,

You are doing great job so far!

So, in reality there might not be anything as separate.
Really, is it so?
Does, everything just appears to be separate. Can you help me to get it clear?

You are trying to think this through. You need to look for yourself.

Try this:

Look around with your eyes. Notice what you see. Notice all thoughts that are labelling everything.
Then close your eyes. What happens to the separation you saw?
What happens to the boundaries you described?
With your eyes closed, can you be sure all that you saw remains there?
Can you tell something is separate of what you sense when eyes are closed?

Look and tell what you notice.

Yeah initially the thoughts were there, that if 'I' accept there is no self, I won't be able to change the way things are.
Like, there would be no motivation to do things, no one accountable or responsible.

This is what thoughts tells, right?
Since “I” is only a thought and not a real separate entity, and has never existed for real.
Have you ever been able to change the way things are?
Can motivation still arise and can doing still happen,
after you stop thinking and believing the thought “I” is in charge?

Look deeper into these. You are doing well.

[experienceit]

Hello,

Yes, I have been thinking through, all these.
How to look beyond these thoughts.

Look around with your eyes. Notice what you see. Notice all thoughts that are labeling everything.
Then close your eyes. What happens to the separation you saw?
What happens to the boundaries you described?

Maybe understood what it is.
All the separation is caused on the level of thought.
It is the thought that makes it appear everything as separate.
Only, when we think, there is 'I' which causes separation.Like, labeling everything.
His, her, this, that, you, me, your's, mine.

But, then it means nothing exists.
It is difficult to write it into words, but can see there's no self, they are only thoughts.
In, the moments of quietness (absence of thoughts), there is no division.

For a few seconds, I can feel, there's no 'self'.
I am trying, to explain. how I am feeling, but can't find proper words.

Can you help me, make it really sure that is the thoughts, that are causing separation?

This is what thoughts tells, right?
Since “I” is only a thought and not a real separate entity, and has never existed for real.
Have you ever been able to change the way things are?

Yes, I understood, all this accepting, non accepting are happening in the field of thoughts.
Accepting, won't change anything.
If there is clarity, acceptance happens automatically.
So. these thoughts can be tricky, but we have to understand that they are just thoughts.
If not thoughts, what should be used to see clearly.

Multipass, thank you very much. I think we are doing great. Maybe, we are very close.

Regards,
Experienceit

[Multipass]

Hi Experienceit,

All good, we go on as long as you are sure. It is a pleasure to do this with you.

Can you help me, make it really sure that is the thoughts, that are causing separation?

I will do my best, but it is you that look, so that you will be sure of what is real.
I give you something that helps you to see how labelling is happening and what can be directly seen.

Raw perceptions:

Visual seeing -> colors
Hearing -> sounds
Smelling -> odors
Tasting -> tastes
Sensations by body -> feelings and sensations


Look around and see the view as only colors. Can you see the view as a whole, with lot´s of colors?
All being there at once.
Now list with words what you see. Chair, table, or what ever you are seeing now.
Then pick one item and focus on it.

Tell me what you can say about it. See how it is crated.

Some color combinations picks the focus, a shape will be defined and a name given to it.
Then story about it starts. Look how the whole is cut into pieces.

While doing this, look is it “I” doing the looking, or is the looking just happening?
Is the looking separate from you?

Describe how you experience this and what you find.

All is going really well.