Trackless Bird

[Periwinkle]

And what do you look for, when you look for a me?

It's vague. I look for something solid that I can point to, that is consistently there. I look for some sort of identity, an experiencer, a decider, a thing that I could almost grab a hold of and show to someone.

[s-p-a-c-e]

And what do you look for, when you look for a me?

It's vague. I look for something solid that I can point to, that is consistently there. I look for some sort of identity, an experiencer, a decider, a thing that I could almost grab a hold of and show to someone.

Ok.
So can we make statements like "there is nothing there" when we don't know what we're looking for?

/john

[Periwinkle]

So can we make statements like "there is nothing there" when we don't know what we're looking for?

Language isn't serving me well here.

I'm looking for a solid person, this one who is causing me so much grief. And all I can come up with is a mental state, nothing solid at all.

As mental states go, it's an extremely solid one, it's mammoth, it's a well protected fortress. My belief in it makes it so. So, when I say that there's nothing there, I refer into the fact that beyond a collection of thoughts and mental states there is nothing permanent there which I can reliably to point to. A week ago it controlled me, but now it's either gone or has just temporarily receded.

[s-p-a-c-e]

I'm looking for a solid person, this one who is causing me so much grief. And all I can come up with is a mental state, nothing solid at all.

As mental states go, it's an extremely solid one, it's mammoth, it's a well protected fortress. My belief in it makes it so. So, when I say that there's nothing there, I refer into the fact that beyond a collection of thoughts and mental states there is nothing permanent there which I can reliably to point to. A week ago it controlled me, but now it's either gone or has just temporarily receded.

Ok, yes, nothing is permanent even super glue. :)

What we're talking about is just the boring old you you've known for decades, that familiar, perhaps comfortable (like an old chair) feeling of being you which is imbued with the sense that this who you are you.

Yes, no doubt it feels solid, and can you feel this familiar everyday state of being you. Yes, it comes and goes, but don't you recognise the sense of being you?

Many thanks!
John

[Periwinkle]

Yes, no doubt it feels solid, and can you feel this familiar everyday state of being you. Yes, it comes and goes, but don't you recognise the sense of being you?

Yes, I do. And it is very much like an old chair that I sit in each day and view the world from.

[s-p-a-c-e]

Yes, no doubt it feels solid, and can you feel this familiar everyday state of being you. Yes, it comes and goes, but don't you recognise the sense of being you?

Yes, I do. And it is very much like an old chair that I sit in each day and view the world from.

Ok, great, sorry to bang on about it :) but little point in inquiring without something to inquire into. But we got there, thanks for staying with it. We'll call it 'good ole you' for ease of reference.

Now, do you see 'good ole you' as a being in its own right?

How much independence do you see 'good ole you' having?

Many thanks!
John

[Periwinkle]

Now, do you see 'good ole you' as a being in its own right?

How much independence do you see 'good ole you' having?

In order to qualify as a being in its own right, 'good old me' should have independence, the ability to stand on its own without relying on anything else for its existence. But it relies on thoughts and on a physical form, a body, upon which it is applied. Remove the thoughts, or remove the form, and it is no more.

[s-p-a-c-e]

In order to qualify as a being in its own right, 'good old me' should have independence, the ability to stand on its own without relying on anything else for its existence. But it relies on thoughts and on a physical form, a body, upon which it is applied. Remove the thoughts, or remove the form, and it is no more.

So do the familiar sensations in the body, that were imbued with the 'good ole me' assumption, need to change one iota, whether imbued with this idea 'good ole me' or not?

- they may, or they may not, but is a change necessary? -

Thanks!
John

[Periwinkle]

So do the familiar sensations in the body, that were imbued with the 'good ole me' assumption, need to change one iota, whether imbued with this idea 'good ole me' or not?

- they may, or they may not, but is a change necessary?

No. The irritation in my eye, the rush of blood when I exercise, the coolness on my skin from a breeze do not need to change, whether 'good ole me' claims them or not.

Thank you.

[s-p-a-c-e]

So do the familiar sensations in the body, that were imbued with the 'good ole me' assumption, need to change one iota, whether imbued with this idea 'good ole me' or not?

- they may, or they may not, but is a change necessary?

No. The irritation in my eye, the rush of blood when I exercise, the coolness on my skin from a breeze do not need to change, whether 'good ole me' claims them or not.

Can 'good ole me' claim anything?

Many thanks!
John

[Periwinkle]

Can 'good ole me' claim anything?

No, but it wants to!

After our last exchange I was reading over an LU thread of you guiding someone, and you posed the question, "What if good ole me is unobservable?" I pondered that, and then something shifted and I found myself just seeing without a seer, for what seemed like about a minute or so.

Then good ole me jumped in and wanted to claim this experience, "I'm seeing!" Then my wife complimented me on the breakfast I made and good ole me latched onto that as well and puffed out its chest, lol.

The seeing feeling, if I can call it that, hasn't completely gone away, there is some residue still. Trying not to over-analyze, but there seems to have been a slight shift of some kind.

[s-p-a-c-e]

After our last exchange I was reading over an LU thread of you guiding someone, and you posed the question, "What if good ole me is unobservable?" I pondered that, and then something shifted and I found myself just seeing without a seer, for what seemed like about a minute or so.

What? You're not allowed to read other threads. LOL Only joking. :)

'seeing without a seer' - cool. nice huh? :)

Then good ole me jumped in and wanted to claim this experience, "I'm seeing!" Then my wife complimented me on the breakfast I made and good ole me latched onto that as well and puffed out its chest, lol.

What did you have for breakfast? Can I book?

Having the experience of ''seeing without a seer' shifts the landscape. You can never observe the actions called 'good ole me' in the same way again.

The seeing feeling, if I can call it that, hasn't completely gone away, there is some residue still. Trying not to over-analyze, but there seems to have been a slight shift of some kind.

Yeah, it doesn't go away, because it was always there. We're just kinda cleaning the windows a bit. In everyday experience it will tend to come to fore and retreat.

We called it 'good ole me' and thus gave it some loose form to give our inquiry something to work with.
But what is 'good ole me' but a bunch of habitual feelings, movements and ideas about those habitual feelings and movements?

Does 'good ole me' have any form, at all?
What does it have to stand on?

Many thanks!
John

[Periwinkle]

Yeah, it doesn't go away, because it was always there. We're just kinda cleaning the windows a bit. In everyday experience it will tend to come to fore and retreat.

Yikes. I'm not quite ready to accept this is happening. It's been such a terribly long journey that I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. But I'm hopeful!

What did you have for breakfast? Can I book?

You are hysterical!

Does 'good ole me' have any form, at all?
What does it have to stand on?

I can't find a form. It's just ideas and mental images swirling, like a dust devil. All it has to stand on is other ideas.

What I'm noticing is how being accused or being praised will solidify good ole me. I am normally at the mercy of others' opinions, but I can see now how this could shift with repeated seeing.

Uh-oh - good ole me is claiming this seeing again. Does this ever stop?

Thank you.

[s-p-a-c-e]

I can't find a form. It's just ideas and mental images swirling, like a dust devil. All it has to stand on is other ideas.

What I'm noticing is how being accused or being praised will solidify good ole me. I am normally at the mercy of others' opinions, but I can see now how this could shift with repeated seeing.

Uh-oh - good ole me is claiming this seeing again. Does this ever stop?

In a funny way, the praised/accused conditioning of childhood was also to escape/resolve a perceived separation from the mother (largely) - through the clambering for attention - look at me, etc.

It goes when you see what it is.

Praise is sought so that...?

Many thanks,
John

[Periwinkle]

It goes when you see what it is.

Praise is sought so that...?

It is sought to be special, to be unique, to be separate, to be valid - in other words, to lend solidity to good ole me.

It's really incredible how the perceived separate being of 'good ole me' usurps thought and logic, and uses mind to not only invent itself, but to reinforce, maintain and protect itself. No wonder it's hidden from us - it hides in plain sight. I don't appear to be mad because everyone is mad.

(John, I do hope you'll ruthlessly correct any of these musings. I'm beginning to taste some relief!)

Thank you.