Still seeking

[Ben2]

Hi Mark

Great! Keep going, you're on the right path here.

And yes you're totally right. The sensation labelled "I" is not "I", it's just a sensation.

The thought of "I" is only a thought, it is not the "I".

This "strong sense of self" you refer to. Where and what is it exactly? Is it a feeling or a thought?

Keep looking.

Ben

[noPurpose]

Hmm.
the "sense of self" is just a thought. sometimes the thought is also attached to a sensation.,
Sensation and feelings either based on thoughts about memories or thoughts about an imagined future.

But. Nothing there.

Is that it? this is just, what is? This is it? What the hell do I do now? Now that there is no "I" to do anything?
I guess i walk my dogs.
Still. What the hell?

"I" wanted an end to the non-stop seeking. There is no "I" to seek. I guess that stops the seeking...

There is certainly calm. I am not panicked about the job that does not appear to be going well, or the debt that I have.
There is no Mark" here. That is just a fucking label I was given when this body was born,and believed it meant "Me".

Really. I am laughing. This is silly. I have been beating myself up for years over a made-up thing. Years!

I expected fireworks to shoot out by eyeballs or something, but this is fine. How could it be other than what it is?
Nothing dramatic, no "Everything is beautiful" or any crap like that. I do not feel the drama that was there a short time ago.

What now?

Mark

[Ben2]

Great! Hahaha.

I am smiling for you Mark. It's the "cosmic joke" right?

What's different now to before? How's the seeking?

What now? Well this is the first step to a larger process until full enlightenment occurs. But this step can be a doozy so I recommend to let nature take its course and allow it to unfold as it wants.

Do you feel separation from things around you? What's your experience of this now?

Much love

Ben

[noPurpose]

Hi Ben,

Do you feel separation from things around you? What's your experience of this now?

Hm. yes and no. Trying to make sense of this, and then realizing that there is no "me" to make sense of anything.
The level of stress relief that is felt is pretty amazing. Just a feeling, or, less contraction felt in the body.
Still, I look out the window at a tree or a dog, and yes, that seems to feel that over "there" is a separate thing vs this body "here". If I go through an exercise of where this body ends and that one begins, then sure, there is less of a feeling of separation.

What's different now to before? How's the seeking?

The difference to now vs just a couple days ago? Well, I am calmer. No question about that.
I am not stressed about work. At all. Two meetings tomorrow, and I could be looking for a new job. No big deal.

Full disclosure, I decided to take a look at my Kindle, that I bought for myself in January. I wanted to see how many books I had purchased this year, related to Non-duality/enlightenment etc..

23 books. Just this year. read most of them. A few I stopped after just a few chapters.
The last three are the books from this site, and while i have read a few chapters of Gateless Gatecrashers, i stopped reading that once we started our conversation. I have enjoyed "Look! Seeing what is". I have been looking at that a bit every day.
Every week this year, I have looked on Amazon in this category, found a few books that looked like they may hold the magic key, read reviews, and bought a book and read it. rinse-repeat. every week.

This weekend, I just kind of sat around and enjoyed life. Really strange, and very relaxing. Nothing needs to seek.
So, while I certainly no longer feel a need to seek for anything, there is not just sitting on a bench enjoying some Utopia.

This is pretty great, yet it is also the same. Most of all, I just am not feeling all the drama that I used to.


Mark

[Ben2]

Wonderful Mark!

It warms me inside to hear this.

Yes, it's startling to think if the time, effort and money we put into this, and then once you see it it's so simple and obvious.

So the LU method from here is that I ask you a standard set of questions, and I put forth your answers to the other guides who'll ask further questions if required to make sure you're all the way through. If it's all good to go then we can add you to the Facebook group so you can connect with others who've passed this step like yourself.

Are you ready for the final questions? Do you have any further questions for me before we get to them?

Talk soon

Ben

[noPurpose]

Are you ready for the final questions?

yep,
Ready for the questions.
FIre away!

Mark

[Ben2]

Okay great. Here you go!

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Can you talk about decision, intention, free will, choice and control? What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Please answer with as much detail as possible, when ready.


Thanks Mark

[noPurpose]

Hi Ben!

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

Nope. Just a concept. Thoughts about feelings about thoughts about sensations about feelings...etc

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The separate self is a belief. really nothing more. I believed that all was one, except for me,. LoL. "I" was somehow different, not connected, etc. The belief in the separate self starts with children when they are very young. I have two children, and have unwittingly done this to them. Small human arrives and we give it a name. Convince the child that he is separate from us, and next thing you know, he is saying "MINE" and the belief is solidified from there. Every time "I" had unpleasant feelings (thoughts about sensations) it was happening to an imagined "Me" that I believed was real.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

Funny. Just super funny. I am still occasionally laughing about this. Before this was pointed out and I actually LOOKED for myself, I really, really, REALLY was caught up in the story of Mark. Since Saturday, I have been more relaxed, regardless of the turmoil around me. I certainly still have preferences. I am just not caught up in all the drama. The thinking seems to have slowed a lot, but I am still noticing a lot of thoughts. I notice them, with interest, but no drama.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Ben had me describe the "self" when someone is yelling at me. Since that seemed to happen a lot that specific day, it was a real eye opener. I felt a "sense of self" that just had to be real. when I looked, there was just a sensation of contraction, caused by thoughts about what was being experienced. Nothing more. Damn.

5) Can you talk about decision, intention, free will, choice and control? What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

This is a lot of homework. Decision. well, again, I think that this body/mind certainly has preferences. I mean, I still went to work today, since this body likes comfort, shelter, food, etc. however, whatever I intend to do, may or may not happen. since, there is nobody here doing anything. just shit happening. God, I had that bumper sticker in the 80s. "Shit Happens". if I had just stayed with that, I could have saved so much time and money. LOL.
Free will. I guess I am free to believe whatever I want. What I am noticing, is that lots of beliefs do not really help. Especially the belief of a separate "ME". Choice? I have a choice, I guess, to do something or not. but the thought to do something just happens. I do not suddenly decide. It just happens. Waking happens, driving happens, work happens. A thought comes and I can pretend to take ownership of it, and call that choice and free will. hehe. still, I am just along for the ride. What a relief.

I have no idea what "makes" things happen. How could I? Shit happens. really. at least it seems to.

What am I responsible for? I have no idea. There is no I. making this experience more enjoyable for apparent "others" would be nice. I tried to teach my children to be kind. never a bad choice (if you have a choice).
Stuck on that one. I will think on it some more.
For now, Ben, THANK YOU!
This is crazy funny to me right now. Sitting at my desk at work and just broke out laughing today.

Let me know if you want more input from me.

Mark

[Ben2]

Hello Mark

Wonderful answers, I really enjoyed reading them. Thank you for putting in so much detail!

I'll send this to the other guides now and see if they have any further questions.

Talk soon

Ben

[Ben2]

Hi Mark

Just a few clarification questions from some of the fellow guides. Have a look at your own experience and try answer the following questions as best you can:

What is a belief?

What is it that can believe whatever it wants?

What is responsibility?

Let me know if you have any questions and need further clarification.

Talk soon

Ben

[noPurpose]

Good Morning Ben,

What is a belief?

A belief is just a thought. The apparent "Self" would attach the "I believe" to the thought.
SO, belief is just that. a thought, attached to either a sensation or just habitual.

What is it that can believe whatever it wants?

Yeah, got me here. There is nobody here to believe anything. Just a habit to re-hash or focus on certain thoughts, over and over. When I just look for who it is that is believing the thoughts, ha... Nothing. I am having a hard time using words for this. The "I" that i thought I was does not exist. That is why I keep saying there is no more drama. Everything is exactly the same, yet different. When I look into imagined history of my story, I can see certain beliefs (thoughts) that the story-me held dear. That process caused lots of pain or drama. So, I guess looking for who it is that is attaching to the thoughts is a much more useful process than trying to do something with a thought (Like "let it go" or "accept it"). Thoughts will happen, for as long as this body/mind is around. yet, nobody is thinking. LoL.

What is responsibility?

Language is hard for this one. Is responsibility a duty? Is it the "Ability to Respond"?
There is nobody here to do anything, yet I feel gratitude and the desire to do something. Not sure what.
Right now, I am just really enjoying the openness that is felt.
I guess I may need clarification on responsibility.

Thanks!

Mark

[Ben2]

Hello Mark

Great answers, you seem really clear.

In terms of responsibility, let's have a look at it.

Can you predict your next thought?

Is there a you inside that decides what your next thought will be?

Being a responsible person and doing what's right. How does this all happen? Does something make it happen?

Bring up thoughts about being responsible, or responsibility. Have a look at the thoughts. Can a thought actually do anything?

Try play with this as much as you can and see what you find in your own experience. Shoot me as many questions as you need.

Talk soon

Ben

[noPurpose]

Hey Ben,
Thanks, and here are my answers.

Can you predict your next thought?

Nope.

Is there a you inside that decides what your next thought will be?

Absolutely not. Nothing here.

Being a responsible person and doing what's right. How does this all happen? Does something make it happen?

I will go back to "shit happens" , or probably a more friendly way to say it... "Life Happens"
Nothing here to make anything happen. There are habitual thoughts. all they are is thoughts.

Bring up thoughts about being responsible, or responsibility. Have a look at the thoughts. Can a thought actually do anything?

Of course, a thought cannot do anything. This really is just habitual thinking about wanting to "do good" or whatever.
Weather that comes from a desire to "fit in" or feel secure, or feel valued, or benefit apparent "others", all are just thoughts , or feelings about thoughts.

Fun stuff.
Mark

[Ben2]

Great, this is all sounding really clear.

So last question and I'll show your responses to the other guides.

What is responsibility?

Thanks

Ben

[noPurpose]

Hey Ben,
Happy Friday!

What is responsibility?

Just a concept. A thought arises, "I should do ______". There is nobody here doing anything.
No doer. How can anyone be responsible? Life happens. It really is that simple.

Mark