Live my life from place of oneness and integration of all including my physical body without separation

[Bernadette]

Hello Andrei,

Existence/ non existence in diect experience - i mean existence on the earthly plane as human, non existence as there being a bunch of experiences and sensations. In DE - existence and non existence feel the same, strangely enough, in existence as if there is a will to make something happen, as if need to add to the experience. How to be in both, or stwy in awareness of both at the same time?

A single thought can last a second - i guess i just meant they do
Not last long.
I am still not clear of where thoughts come from

Being stuck in thoughts in DE looks like " something jammed in my head" , from DE it feels like just another sensation. I realise this here, yet still spend lot of my time thinking!

Thank you
Bernedette

[apolsk]

Hi Bernadette,

Existence/ non existence in diect experience - i mean existence on the earthly plane as human, non existence as there being a bunch of experiences and sensations.

Let's get even closer to the direct experience. Take a look at your hand. You can clearly see its shape, color, count fingers, right? Next time you look at it, you will see the same thing, without thinking. Correct?

Now, please describe "existence" and "non-existence" in the same simple and direct terms. When you look at "non-existence", what does it look like? What is the color? How does it smell? Can you touch it?

In DE - existence and non existence feel the same, strangely enough, in existence as if there is a will to make something happen, as if need to add to the experience. How to be in both, or stwy in awareness of both at the same time?

Are you sure this is DE and not your thoughts? A "will to make something happen" - yes, I get it, you describe a feeling. How is this feeling "an existence", rather than just a feeling?

A single thought can last a second - i guess i just meant they do
Not last long.

What exactly lasts a second?

I am still not clear of where thoughts come from

What kind of "from" thoughts could possibly come from? Look in the direct experience. Can you find and identify any "from" in it? If not, is there any "from" to talk about ouside of imagination?

Being stuck in thoughts in DE looks like " something jammed in my head" , from DE it feels like just another sensation. I realise this here, yet still spend lot of my time thinking!

So there is a sensation that you label as "something jammed in my head" or "stuck in thoughts". What if those labels disappeared. Would it still be "stuck in thoughts", or just a sensation?

You said that a thought lasts a second. What after that? After it's gone, how can you still be stuck in it?

Thank you,
Andrei

[Bernadette]

Hello Andrei,

Non existence - I do not get in DE any feeling of colour or shape? Emptiness
Existence in DE - sensations and feelings, colours - white, spectrum of colours,...; sensation of breathing,

Interesting, again it shows how habitual my thinking is, yes, an existence - "will to make something happen" is thinking " an existence" - it feels quite subtle and when I have examined again, I agree.

Thoughts - What lasts a second Exactly? - I guess that I was referring to my thinking about how long the thought might last....?

Interesting - where thoughts come from? - the " from" again a thinking process this time involving imagination, never thought about them like this before, yet have been wondring re ?. From where?
With this new realisation in mind, When I examine again - thoughts just appear ...randomly, there is no where to look for them wheree they come from or where they are going?

Hopefully Bernadette will not see that being " stuck in thoughts" is just a sensation with a label ( result of thinking) attached to it.

I will now examine how much labelling,ie attaching all sorts of thoughts,.... I do fo most of feelings and sensations.
Still thinking a lot, with getting carried away byt the thoughts, ie not in the present, how Much clarity can there be then?
I wonder if focusing on DE sensations as much as pos, might be enough? Then noticing thoughts coming and going, ...
Will try this and see how long I can maintain focus this way?
Wiuld you say this might be a good way of going about it?

After thought has gone, I can only be thinking about it, this leading to a thought of being "stuck in a thought" ? I find this quite groundbreaking! For me to realise

Many thanks for all your support, I am so appreciative of this opportunity to question with you all areas of conditioned believes and ignorance?

Love
Bernadette

[apolsk]

Non existence - I do not get in DE any feeling of colour or shape? Emptiness
Existence in DE - sensations and feelings, colours - white, spectrum of colours,...; sensation of breathing,

You are giving me examples of experiences that you interpret as "non-existence" or "existence". But I am asking quite literally - describe in DE what "existence" and "non-existence" themselves feel like. "White color" is an experience of white color. "Sensation of breathing" is an experience of the sensation of breathing. What is the direct experience of existence - not something else that you also could label as "existence" in your thinking, but the existence itself - the original direct experience that is just existence and nothing else, not white color, not breathing and so on?

"Emptiness" is a word. What exactly in the direct experience this word is pointing at? At "non-existence", which is in turn a word pointing at "emptiness"? This is not good enough, we need a real solid undeniable experience, not just a cross-play of abstract words.

Thoughts - What lasts a second Exactly? - I guess that I was referring to my thinking about how long the thought might last....?

OK, so let's put this thinking and ideas aside for now and look into the actual experience of thought. Please describe the experience that you label as "thought". Is it an inner voice in your head, intoning the sentence with that thought's meaning? Or something else?

I wonder if focusing on DE sensations as much as pos, might be enough? Then noticing thoughts coming and going, ...
Will try this and see how long I can maintain focus this way?
Would you say this might be a good way of going about it?

Who or what decides what needs to be done and then executes this plan? Remember the exercise with raising your hand? You saw that the decision just appeared out of nowhere. How did the decision to "focus on DE sensation as much as pos" come into existence? Isn't it just another thought appearing out of nowhere?

Your goal is not to do something about it. Only to see what is already here. And only to see what is actually happening, nothing more. It is too simple, too obvious, I understand. You expect more, and if more is not found, you make it up with thinking. You don't need to do more. You need to do less. Less making stuff up. Only notice what you already see instantly, effortlessly. Hand. Wall. Keyboard. I can see these. Self? Existence? Can you see those?

After thought has gone, I can only be thinking about it, this leading to a thought of being "stuck in a thought" ? I find this quite groundbreaking! For me to realise

Yes, "being stuck in thought" is just another thought - not more important than any other. Can you see it?

[Bernadette]

Good morning dear Andrei,

Yesterday whilst food shopping I have experienced an extreme fright/ terror out of a blue for no reason. Felt extremely uncomfortable, not knowing why, associated with a strong sense of resistence to relax, meditate,...look at what is happening,....
On closer look when I got home, it was clear, this is " caused" by the fear of non existence. Hence all endeavours in my life have always been aimed to reassure I exist( food, relationships... having something to relate to, " getting anything,... looking for a fixed point again to relate to,.....same thing different forms). Not having anything to relate to feels like a terror, extreme fright which puts hold on to everything.
It took a while to " relax" into a more comfortable level, the initial reaction was of course to suppress / resist " i do not want to feel this way". Did my best at not reacting this way.

So what is the direct experience of " existence"? In DE it is -"existing" " living", as presence of sensations and feelings. Non existence in DE is the opposite- " not living" absence of sensations and feelings, of direct experience, of all things,.. ie emptiness
Emptiness as word is pointing at - absence of all- things, experiences, feelings,...., spaciousnesses,

The exeprience that I label as thought - yes, it is an inner voice " talking" that mind then registers and interprets

The decision who or what decides what needs to be done? Yes, interestingly, this decision comes out of nowhere, and yes, similarly I can see now how The Decision " focus on DE as much as pos" - has come about also " out of nowhere" ,....
So do all decisions come out of nowhere?? Randomly? If we accept this as yes, then we could choose what to think and also easier not to take the thoughts so seriously and definite as I have been, hence not needing to follow through with having more thoughts about the decisions= thoughts.?

My goal is not to " do" something about it - yes, I am here only to see, rather say reflect in my eyes, what is ACTUALLY here and not more! Yes, indeed. It feels loke " looking" at all eith a different frequencey. This need / compulsion to see more and to make something out of it, is i guess also part of the need to fix something to a point, ie fix it so that " I " can feel fixed around this fixed point,...?

Yes, I need to make up less, do less, try less hard!!! And push less hard!!! Quite the opposite of what taught , ie if not succeed then try harder and harder until you do succeed?!?
Well, what a realisation!the process of undoing more and more and whe feel " undone" undo more yet,...?..

I can see objects. I cannot " see" self, existence......or do not know how to see abstract. Need to leave this one for next time as feel this has been quite overhwelming so far today

" being stuck in thought" is another thought, so is anything else I might say about something else....?

Thank you for pointing it all to me. Have enough to process today
I am very appreciative of us " working" together

Love
Bernadette

[Bernadette]

Re emptiness - After practise today, I have experienced/ realised that emptiness is an experience. Could this be what it is pointing at - " instant presence, continous awareness" ?

Thank you
Bernadette

[apolsk]

Bernadette,

It looks like you had a bout of what's called "restlessness" in Buddhist tradition. It is always present until full liberation, but is usually obfuscated by more coarse layers of illusion. Next time just stay with the sensation, explore it. Is there any real danger? Can anything disappear just because of your thoughts about non-existence? What's real cannot disappear. What's not real never existed in the first place. So what is the danger?

Look behind fearful thoughts. Can you spot anything behind the wall of fear? Look through it and see if you can find anything that it tries to hide.

So what is the direct experience of " existence"? In DE it is -"existing" " living", as presence of sensations and feelings. Non existence in DE is the opposite- " not living" absence of sensations and feelings, of direct experience, of all things,.. ie emptiness
Emptiness as word is pointing at - absence of all- things, experiences, feelings,...., spaciousnesses,

Sorry, you are still applying abstract language, not direct experience. Sensations are sensations. Feelings are feelings. Point your finger at something that is existence and nothing else. Point your finger at something that is non-existence, and nothing else. Don't step away from the DE into grouping descriptions of different things under one generic term, e.g. "existince". This is not DE. This is called abstract thinking. Be concrete instead. How many fingers does the existence have?

So do all decisions come out of nowhere??

What does "nowhere" look like in DE?

The exeprience that I label as thought - yes, it is an inner voice " talking" that mind then registers and interpret

Is it really this way and not the other way around? Don't you usually have at least some idea of what to say in inner voice before you start? For me it is this way, but for you it could be different. Look carefully. In any case, an inner voice is an inner voice. Thought is a meaning of it. How long is this meaning?

Yes, I need to make up less, do less, try less hard!!!

But can you do even that? Can you do anything at all, or do you just notice all this planning and doing taking place, and claiming that it all belongs to you? How is it different from a decision "coming out of nowhere" which hand to raise?

emptiness - After practise today, I have experienced/ realised that emptiness is an experience.

Can you describe this experience in terms of simple sensations? What does it feel like? If it feels like something, it can't be emptiness, can it? It is full of that feeling.

[Bernadette]

Hello Andrei and thank you.
I have found what you said about the restlessness very helpful. I have been " working" using this and have been processing stuff.

I have been perceiving a sensation of " extreme terror" ( on and off, very intense for past 3 days). Following what you say - exploring this - there is no real danger ( in past I have been crried away by the intensity of the emotion and thinking about it which of course felt as very dangerous. Looking now, of course there is no real danger.
Nothing can disappear just because of my thoughts about it, this also applies to my thoughts about non existence. What is not real, ie not existed, cannot disappear. Can it be that there is non existence and apparent existence, both present at the same time?

Last three days again sensations of terror, extreme fear. This time it is hiding more fears just to list few ...of humiliation, pain, suffering, punishment, ....list could go on I guess...... all fears. Am staying present to this, accepting and understanding

It is rather interresting that whilst I am writing to you about this now, I am experiencing more peace than I would have whilst would be looking and experiencing various fearful sensations.

Thank you for your perserverance with me on the DE of existence. It shows The diminished connectedness with myself experiencing stuff and having been rather thinking about everything in my life so far instead. I wish to continue with this exploration. Existnce in DE is all the stuff,which is sensed, perceived by our senses. Non existence is perceived beyond senses.

What does nowhere look in DE? Nowhere is a label for a thought, in DE as emptiness

Inner voice , for me it seems to come as inner voice, I cannot track any idea of what it will say before, however I admit A possibility that my awareness is only able to perceive this far at present. I have noticed two main distinctive qualities of inner voices, one usualy nags,....one feels more like intuition? Or at least of very different nature and quality, would say comes from a different place. A thought is a meaning of the inner voice? How long does a meaning last? This is a very interesting question, ie just realised that meaning of the inner voice lasts only for the duration of the thought itself. Here I see that I have always taken the meaning a) as real, b) lasting and as a result had more thoughts about it,......leading my life from this place.

I' d be interested to hear what you say about the how long the meaning lasts?

" trying hard and harder,......-and harder still".... I can see what you say -all this is planning and doing and then claiming that Bernadette must do this. Even now this brings about a a thought of needing to strive, pushing. Yes, I can see how it seems to be v similar to the " coming out of nowhere" about which hand to raise. It is a very strong conditioning, by my parents,... the whole education system and society,...I can see now that one can choose - do I follow?

Description of emptiness in DE - agree if it feels like something, it cannot be emptiness, also if Bernadette perceives it, as I have been doing so far- it also cannot be emptiness. In DE - as infinite spaciousness

Thank you lots for all
Love
Bernaddette xxx

[apolsk]

Hi Bernadette,

Surfacing fears are a sign that you are ready to consciously face them, rather than push them away. Just admit their presence and investigate with curiosity what comes up, focusing on the sensations. If they become too intense, you might try the EFT ("emotional freedom technique") - you can google it. It is a simple tapping technique that reduces intensity of strong emotions and makes them more manageable. Just don't push them away completely, learn from their message.

I' d be interested to hear what you say about the how long the meaning lasts?

Does it have a quality of duration? Or is "duration" itself simply one of such meanings? Look into DE. How exactly does "meaning" manifest in it?

Non existence is perceived beyond senses.

How?

I can see now that one can choose - do I follow?

Choosing happens all the time, but can you find that "one" that chooses? Choose which hand to raise and locate the entity in DE that made that decision. Can you find it, or can you only notice the decision itself as it emerges out of nothing?

Description of emptiness in DE - agree if it feels like something, it cannot be emptiness, also if Bernadette perceives it, as I have been doing so far- it also cannot be emptiness. In DE - as infinite spaciousness

I will give a hint: anything of "A is a B" form is not direct experience. It is categorical thinking. Now I have to ask - what does "infinite spaciousness" feel like in DE? Can you describe it as simple concrete sensations and facts? Not as another set of abstract words, please.

Thank you,
Andrei

[Bernadette]

Good morning dear Andrei and thank you
for your patience whilst I am discovering " what a DE" is and in particular DE of existence and nonexistence. I wish to arrive at what these in DE are myself and am willing to continue until I do so.i feel it is important for me this way. So thank you for your patience and perseverance with me.

Infinite spaciousness in DE as a sensation -like a vast "vacuum ".? In fact as a unlimited free space
I will keep going.......until I will get a DE of this. Please do not give up on me, I am " trying"

Can I find that one that chooses? I cannot find the one that chooses, it reminds me of the way thoughts come out of nowhere, and B claims that they are hers, as claims that all choices are hers.

Non existence perceived beyond senses- how? By "withdrawing " from the outside world and going " within", by relaxation

Does lasting of meaning have A quality of duration - actually I I can see " lasting " is a quality itself, time is a quality - in DE feels like linear line with a beginning and with an end.

I found very helpful what you said about facing fears, one before last time, re fears of non existence. Since then I have been using this ,ie stwying with the sensation, seeing through it and see if or what fear hides - here I found that fear hides yet more fear, the last big one I found was underneath was a need to feel " safe" and seeking to find safety in rlationships. Using what we have done together so far, I could be acknowledging that there is " nobody" to feel safe and safety or not safery are polarities of an ilusion, perceived by ego.
I can use the existence/ nonexistence example here as safety / nonsafety both present as dualities and relax into non dual state?

Thank you
Love xxx

[apolsk]

Hi Bernadette,

It's very good that you have such a strong resolve to continue and get to the bottom of this! It is only a matter of time.

I am discovering " what a DE" is and in particular DE of existence and nonexistence. I wish to arrive at what these in DE are myself and am willing to continue until I do so.i feel it is important for me this way.

While you are at it, see if you can find out what in DE are similar abstract concepts, such as "love", "goodness", "fairness", "number" and so on. Do they exist in DE in any shape or form, or do they appear only in afterthought, as a mentally derived notion? When I refer to DE, I talk strictly about what can actually be sensed or known without a need for an extra step of thinking. For example, right now I am seeing two sticky notes. The fact that they are seen is DE, I don't need to think to know it. However, the fact that there are two of them is not DE, because to know it, first I have to have an abstract notion of number, and I have to do an act of counting them, which is thinking. Do you see the difference?

Now, with that in mind, can you possibly come across any direct experience that can be labeled as "non-existence"? How would you be able to detect it?

This is just intellectual talk, of course. What I really want you to do is to put all thoughts aside and see, simply see, what's left.

Infinite spaciousness in DE as a sensation -like a vast "vacuum ".? In fact as a unlimited free space

This sounds like more abstract talk to me. How can you possibly sense "unlimited free space" or "vacuum"? Look at specific sensations that arise when you think like this, and check - are they really "vacuum" or "unlimited free space", or just special proxy feelings or hallucinations that you yourself fabricate in order to symbolize and represent these abstract concepts? E.g. say "vacuum" and see what comes up. Is it really a "vacuum" or just some random sensation or mental image (however faint)? Think of those fabricated sensations as a trick through which you make abstract concepts look like concrete things. If you let go of that sensation, where is your "vacuum" in DE?

Does lasting of meaning have A quality of duration - actually I I can see " lasting " is a quality itself, time is a quality - in DE feels like linear line with a beginning and with an end.

Is this linear line an actual (i.e. you can see it with your physical eyes, just as you can see your hand), or an imaginary one? If latter, it's not DE, is it? What is "time" in DE? I know, I've said it a thousand times, but again... Be very literal. Don't invent things. Just look, listen, touch, smell, taste. Can you describe time using only these senses? Or does it only manifest as a thought?

I found that fear hides yet more fear, the last big one I found was underneath was a need to feel " safe" and seeking to find safety in relationships.

Who or what exactly are you hoping to keep safe? The word "I" or "Bernadette"? What is inside that walled garden protected by fear?

As Buddha had put it, our deepest craving is for things to be permanent (lasting), substantial and satisfactory, and yet it is impossible in principle. You might still have a long way to go before you can accept this fact, although nothing prevents you from going deeper and deeper into this fear and checking if there is any real danger there.

There is a program called "inquiry into ten fetters" that you could join after finishing the LU process of seeing that "I" or "self" is an illusion - that one could bring you all the way to the end. But first we need to confirm that you have seen through the illusion of "I", as that is the first and most coarse "fetter". Perhaps for now we should focus just on that.

[Bernadette]

Hello Andrei,
Coming out of my thinking mind, and using the experiencial mind is something I am learning to do whilst unlearning the strong habitual way of thinking.
I just have lost my draft, so am wiritng again, when I explained to you about me noticing how I " push with " my mind all the time, piercing, as if nailing everything everything down whatever comes into focus, v strong fast response habit which makes is hard to DE. I have been relaxing this and realised that this mind is pushing to relax or become softer, making me v uncomfortable in the process.
Yesterday I realised that to soften my thinking mind, this cannot be done through effort, which is of course the only way my mind has known so far. I feel this is on top of the list and also relevant to what we do here. If you might suggest anything here I would be v apreciative and if you would continue to " challenge" my mind so I recognise the patterns more and more,... Thank you

love, fairness, compassion,.......I cannot find any shape or form, labels for what we recognise as a certain quality, this means they appear as an afterthought. I guess one can say that all qualities are an afterthought

Non existence - in DE - this seems v similar to love,..fairness....ie cannot find any shape or form, it appears as an afterthought, labeling something. How Would I be able to detect it? Do not know at the moment.

I can see now what you say above ut " vacuum" - a label for a concept for something that I imagine to be
I agree, it is hard to find a sensation of this, more like a mental concept. If I let go of sensation, "vacuum" disappears.
I have been trying hard to come up with something for nonexistence in DE

Yes, agree the linear line is again imaginary one, hence not a direct experience. Time - i cannot describe it By using senses, so I can see now it is a thought

I have been asking myself " who do I exactly want to keep safe" - have to say that I cannot find anyone, yet this leads to fearful sensations rising up. I have had lots of fear ( and other uncomfortable emotions, sensations),rising up over last few days, feeling very uncomfortable. Have been practising what you suggested, feeling the sensations and staying with the sensations as best as I can.
Thank you
Love
Bernadette

[apolsk]

Hi Bernadette,

Coming out of my thinking mind, and using the experiencial mind is something I am learning to do whilst unlearning the strong habitual way of thinking.

It does not require using any "mind", thinking or experiential. All it takes is simply noticing whatever is already reported through senses. It might help if you try labeling it with whatever words pop up, even if it does not make intellectual sense. Try it. Make your goal for now not to analyse your feelings or fight them, but simply name them using concrete physical words. "Tension in the chest". "Vibration in the head". Something like that - whatever it is for you, no need to look for perfect descriptions.

Let's do it with fear. "Fear" is an abstract term, much like "emptiness" or "love". It is a mental interpretation. Try intercepting physical sensations from which you jump to the conclusion "it's fear" and name them instead. How does "fear" manifest in your body?

If you put aside thoughts that accompany these sensations, what remains?

[Bernadette]

Thank you Andrei

What you say is v helpful. I have certanily been going through whole range of emotions, last few days lots of grief ( physically as a lump in the throat), also lots of suppressed manipulation, unexpressed feelings from childhood, repression, not being able to express myself,... ( physically present as sensation of lump, pressure in the lower oesophagus).
I have been wondering if there is a difference between sensations that we label as positive emotions and between those labeled as negative which ar usually those we want to analyse or fight with. When I focus on sensations and only label these by physical words, then really cannot see the difference between negative and positive emotions - does this mean that they are purely mind lalabeling these either as good, desirable or undesirable, negative? And me continuing interpreting emotions in this way as a result of family, society, world conditioning,....? In fact there is no difference from pint of view of sensations alone?

If put asidde thought that accompany these sensations what remains? Only perceived sensations without any connotation.This is quite a revelation for me, mainly as I have never looked at these like this before and certainly find now very helpful as can start looking and dealing with emotions in a completely different way. So again am very appreciative of your guidance here.

Thank you
Love
Bernadette

[apolsk]

Bernadette,

It's very good that you were able to separate the sensations from associated thoughts and labels. Moments of grief in this work are often also a good sign, as we carry a lot of such hidden emotions, and bringing them up to the surface is a necessary step in letting them go.

We often try living a fairy tale. When reality disagrees with our ungrounded expectations, that leads to suppressed, but accumulating, frustration. Grief is sometimes necessary to say the final good-bye to those unmet expectations and get ready to see what life actually has to offer. And it's a lot - if you focus on small moments that make it up.

When I focus on sensations and only label these by physical words, then really cannot see the difference between negative and positive emotions

Very good! Does the sensation itself say "I am a negative sensation"? Or is there an interpretation that follows and labels it as such?

You can do an experiment: pinch your hand a little so that you start feeling some pain, without actually hurting your body of course. Now, focus all your attention just on the sensation of pain and away from thoughts that you'd rather have a painless experience. Depending on your power of concentration, you may not succeed initially, but if you become one with the pain even for a split-second, try noticing - is there any suffering there? The sensation of pain is happening, sure, but without a thought about wanting this moment to be something different, is there any suffering left at all?

Another important observation you can make is whether there is a thought/feeling "I" accompanying sensation of pain/grief/fear/etc., and if present, does it make the suffering stronger? In other words, does the realization that it is your negative sensation amplifies the problem, makes it something that truly matters, something to suffer from?

What I am getting to here is trying to dissect the experience of suffering and see what actually makes it an issue. Is it the physical sensation-part? Or the labeling-thought part? Or the "mine"-label that attributes this suffering to "you"?

See what you can find out in your experience. It could be very interesting to explore.

Love,
Andrei