I Need Guidance

[Life]

Yup everything is there, is an i there separate from the whole of life controlling everything?

Just allow frustration to be here, look, are you in control when frustration comes and goes, is it your frustration?

It will never make sense to the mind, look beyond mind. have told you about looking. How to do it? it is already happening right now, its about seeing it not doing it! You know like seeing santa was never real in the first place, or the monster under the bed :)

[vinceschubert]

this makes no sense

Ha!, a little aside here. The foibles of language. You say it makes no sense, which on a literal level would mean that none of the senses are activated, but we know that what you mean is the exact opposite. That there is no logic to it. Well that is exactly correct. This is not something that can be understood (with the mind), it can only be experienced.
When you examine frustration, you will find that it is an emotional response to the inability of the mind to find a resolution.
Frustration seems negative but has a really useful quality, and that is that it can be a portal to SURRENDER.
Surrender doesn't mean 'giving up', Surrender means Letting Go !
Surrender means that the Only thing that can happen is to Witness, just Watch, Observe. No judgment, No Opinion, No Belief. Wordless Observing. Thoughtless Observing. Mindless Observing.
And in that, there is a SEEING. A SEEING of What IS
Beautiful.
Let Go Ali.
Relax into IT.
Now close your eyes and let yourself sink into a place where you know that everything is as it IS, and that anything that you think or feel just makes a new IS.

[Noobstorm]

Why present me with concepts that don't make solid sense to me if it has to be seen?

I just went to sleep, I was feeling sick. After I woke up I tried to observe getting rid of attachments.

I know of personal experiences thoughtless observing never works, so I started to embrace every thought and every action.. I didn't interfere. Well.. I haven't seen :(

[Noobstorm]

I still have my sense of self, I think I am the one that was observing.

[vinceschubert]

After I woke up I tried to observe getting rid of attachments.

You weren't asked to do this.
Were you asked to do anything about 'self' in that exercise ?
It seems that you read what is asked then go off and do your own thing, then come back and say that you failed.
Take these questions literally.
Ask yourself if you are doing what is asked ?
Do them a second and a third time if you haven't perceived a shift.

I think I am the one that was observing

You THINK! you were the one observing !!!
Your thoughts are worth as much as the sound of the refrigerator. Those thoughts are what causes all your suffering, or more accurately, the belief in those thoughts cause it.
Stop being a victim (of thoughts) and do what is asked. Go back to the first posts and do each thing that has been asked and this time watch the thoughts that occur but don't get sucked into the content of them. Just see what thoughts are happening.

[Noobstorm]

Sorry Vince, I'll look through this thread again and see.

[zenkitties]

since nil akash has stepped out, I will take over for him if the others do not mind me sitting in.

I think I am the one that was observing

Vince is right you know, the thought is literally devoid of a you. Investigate this you or I. Can you spot the oberserver in what is claiming its stake. is it this or is there nothing really there then the thought happening.

As vince said, the thought is literally as valuable as the sound of a refrigerator, in fact that might do some good. Listen to the sound of a refridge or fan and see if you can find the fan/refridge in sound.

[Trevor]

but i still feel as if there is a central point where all my sensory input is processed

Is believed to be a 'self' ?
Is it the essence of You ?[/quote]


'There is a central point where all my food is processed but it's nothing personal.

You may well "feel as if ... " a lot of things. What you have to do right now is look and see what there actually is. Look, listen and check what is happening right now. What has always been happening right now, no matter what it sometimes feels as if.

Does this central point where all your sensory input is processed own anything?
Is it personal?
Is it just happening? To no one.[/quote]

Noobstorm "Okay so I'm going to assume that this central point is the brain.
It owns the body, senses, thought, etc. It is personal because everyone has a different brain.
It is just happening as itself."[/quote]


Why are you assuming anything? The whole point of this is to see what is true, to see that the personal self is an assumption. Making references to other assumptions like brains isn't helpful. No assumptions about brains. Have you ever seen your brain? No! Look at your experience right now, don't THINK about this. LOOK at it. Actually LOOK and LISTEN now. And describe only the concrete facts of what's happening.

Look and then write. And then tell me in detail what is, without doubt, 100% true, right now? In detail please.
And I don't think you've been writing nearly enough in reply to the pointing. Not on my thread or anyone else's.

[Noobstorm]

Okay so I'm going to assume that this central point is the brain.
It owns the body, senses, thought, etc. It is personal because everyone has a different brain.
It is just happening as itself.

Why are you assuming anything? The whole point of this is to see what is true, to see that the personal self is an assumption. Making references to other assumptions like brains isn't helpful. No assumptions about brains. Have you ever seen your brain? No! Look at your experience right now, don't THINK about this. LOOK at it. Actually LOOK and LISTEN now. And describe only the concrete facts of what's happening.

Look and then write. And then tell me in detail what is, without doubt, 100% true, right now? In detail please.
And I don't think you've been writing nearly enough in reply to the pointing. Not on my thread or anyone else's.

The computer screen and some of the room is seen. The voices on the television are being heard. The body, the chair, and my keyboard are being felt. Lunch is being smelled. I also wasn't aware of what people were saying on the television until it was focused on.

These are all 100% true happening right now with no assumptions.

since nil akash has stepped out, I will take over for him if the others do not mind me sitting in.

He wasn't supposed to post, the three that are helping me are: Life, Trevor, and vinceschubert :)

[zenkitties]

He wasn't supposed to post, the three that are helping me are: Life, Trevor, and vinceschubert :)

Right on, namaste. :)

[Trevor]

Okay so I'm going to assume that this central point is the brain.
It owns the body, senses, thought, etc. It is personal because everyone has a different brain.
It is just happening as itself.

Why are you assuming anything? The whole point of this is to see what is true, to see that the personal self is an assumption. Making references to other assumptions like brains isn't helpful. No assumptions about brains. Have you ever seen your brain? No! Look at your experience right now, don't THINK about this. LOOK at it. Actually LOOK and LISTEN now. And describe only the concrete facts of what's happening.

Look and then write. And then tell me in detail what is, without doubt, 100% true, right now? In detail please.
And I don't think you've been writing nearly enough in reply to the pointing. Not on my thread or anyone else's.

The computer screen and some of the room is seen. The voices on the television are being heard. The body, the chair, and my keyboard are being felt. Lunch is being smelled. I also wasn't aware of what people were saying on the television until it was focused on.

These are all 100% true happening right now with no assumptions.

since nil akash has stepped out, I will take over for him if the others do not mind me sitting in.

He wasn't supposed to post, the three that are helping me are: Life, Trevor, and vinceschubert :)

Good work Ali! Life is happening, being noticed; sensed, smelt, heard, seen, focused on and not focused on.

You've seen that If you take away the assumption of a separate self, in reality, you find none.

Now take some time to do this again and again as often as you remember. And each time, look, listen, sense for what is 100% true.

Then when you're ready Ali answer this question - outside of thoughts and assumptions, is there a separate 'me' anywhere to be found in reality?

[Noobstorm]

Thanks Trevor.

You've seen that If you take away the assumption of a separate self, in reality, you find none.

I haven't quite seen this yet, but I will do as you said throughout the day and let you know if I have any more doubts.

[vinceschubert]

Hi Ali, still waiting for a response from previous exercises...

The computer screen and some of the room is seen. The voices on the television are being heard. The body, the chair, and my keyboard are being felt. Lunch is being smelled.

You say things are seen, heard, smelled, felt. Look, (no deductions, just experiencing.) and tell if the sensed is happening outside or inside the mind/body called Ali.

[Noobstorm]

Hi Ali, still waiting for a response from previous exercises...

• Go back to the first posts and do each thing that has been asked and this time watch the thoughts that occur but don't get sucked into the content of them. Just see what thoughts are happening.

I keep re-cognizing my concreted identity. Some thoughts that come up: "I am observing", "I am awareness," "Look, I am clearly moving my own hands," "I am moving my eyes," "I am focusing on sounds, how else could this happen?" "This makes no sense" "I need to stop believing thoughts"

You say things are seen, heard, smelled, felt. Look, (no deductions, just experiencing.) and tell if the sensed is happening outside or inside the mind/body called Ali.

This is hard.. I don't think I can answer without deductions.

[vinceschubert]

Some thoughts that come up: "I am observing",....

Let's try an experiment with sound (it's easier than observing/seeing). If you have a brass bowl you will get a longer lasting sound, but if not a cup and a spoon will do. Tap the rim of the bowl (or cup) and listen with eyes closed. Thoughts will intercede but discount them (as much as you can). Immerse in the sound. See if you can find a 'spot' where the sound is all, even if for a millisecond. Once this experiencing happens it will be seen that 'you' are the sound. It's not happening TO you. Only deductions say that. It's not outside you, like mind might try to tell you. There is no separate person listening, it takes thought to imagine that. The Sound IS you. You Are the sound. There is no separation. The sound only exists because it is being heard, just as the hearer only exists because of the sound.
Don't think About it. Do the exercise and experience it.