Curious to learn more

[Helene]

Hello

in direct experience ,what is the struggle ?

In direct experience there is no struggle .
It's the thoughts popping up that create a dialogue which then creates the feelings of confusion .

and what individual would that be?quote]
Other individuals ...is it then down to Inteligence , DNA ,personality traits ?
Sorry if this sounds stupid .

what is there that is separate ?

The nautural elements , distance between the environment and others .
Can see the connective link , but unsure specifically of the question ?

what can you know about how this occurs and varies ?and does it really matter ?

There is no knowing within the direct experience and it so doesn't really matter at all .
Again ... thoughts and stories created by perceptions , interactions and behaviours of others .
Night
X

[Bambaji]

Hi

In direct experience there is no struggle. It's the thoughts popping up that create a dialogue which then creates the feelings of confusion

Exactly! Nicely put, although it is more a monologue than a dialogue! And often in this kind of situation, when we look for the feeling of confusion it is not there at all, there was just the thought. Check this out for yourself :)

I asked you "what is there that is separate?" and your response:

The natural elements , distance between the environment and others

When you see 'other people/individuals', do you also see separateness?

Is there 'over here' and 'over there' in your direct experience?

This is expanding on the exercise you did in the garden around boundaries - in and out. If there is no in and out, as you discovered for yourself, how can there be an 'over here' and an 'over there'? You may want to revisit this exercise and check. Sometimes language gets in the way of this experience, as we communicate in a very dualistic way, and that's fine, we have to talk!!! But is this way of communication just convenient or does it truly reflect what is happening, the direct experience?

Love

x

[Helene]

Hello fran
Very late today , fell asleep on the sofa and have just woke up ....exhausting week
Wanted to check in before taking myself to bed .

when you see other 'people/individuals ',do you see separateness ?

Think I do , although there are times when I see closeness/ connectivness . Reflecting on this is this more about emotion ?
Or is this just a thought ?
Sat alone on the beach , in a beautiful wood I feel part of the whole environment .in an unfamiliar crowd of others would lead to a feeling of being separate /alone . Again thoughts, thoughts, thoughts
Within direct experience would be the sensation of that moment , just being , changing moment from moment ,with no perception of separation at all .

is there 'over here over there 'in direct experience ?

No , just sensations, Images and movement
Again 'over here over there 'is a perception made in that moment

So glad that you keep taking me back to the excercise to check , really helping my confusion .

But is this way of communication just convienient or does it truly reflect what is happening, the direct experience?

It is convienient to attempt to describe the experience , but doesn't ever give accuracy as the account may not articulate a true description of reality .
Struggling to demonstrate this in words , will have to come back to this I think .

Night
Helene

[Bambaji]

Hello Helene

Thanks for your post. Healing does take it out of the body. Plenty of rest needed :)

Sat alone on the beach , in a beautiful wood I feel part of the whole environment .in an unfamiliar crowd of others would lead to a feeling of being separate /alone

It is much easier to feel connected in nature, not so much in a crowd, yes, it can be a challenge. But this is not important for the purposes of our conversation. You have seen that there is no self and that is what you set out to do. In a crowd there are many individuals arising but still no self, maybe lots of individuals believing the illusion and story, but still no self. No matter!

So, we are coming to the end of our conversation. Can you say without a shadow of a doubt that you have seen through the illusion of self?

Do you have anything that you would like to explore? If not, I would like to ask you six questions now and, at some point, invite the other guides to take a look at our conversation. Do you feel ready for these? If there are any doubts, now would be a good time to mention them.

With love

x

[Helene]

Good morning Fran
Healing is certainly needed , but a little frustrating when used to running around juggling everything and everything .
Think patience is possibly one of my weakness .

can you say without a shadow of a doubt , that you have seen through the illusion of self ?

Deffinatley , has took a bit of time to overcome the confusions . Without your guidance I don't think it would of been able to see it as clearly .
I can't think of anything else that I currently need to explore thank you .
Seeing and living life without the perception of self removes so many 'niggles 'that have been impacting on thoughts which led to co fusion and doubt .
Happy for you to invite other guides , to look at our conversations .
Big thank you fran .
Hoping that the sun is shining today
Helene x

[Bambaji]

Good morning Helene, no sun here today :( what about you?

....but a little frustrating when used to running around juggling everything and everything.
Think patience is possibly one of my weakness

When thoughts like this come up it is useful to keep reminding 'yourself' that they are only thoughts. Where is the juggler, is frustration real, where is the Helene that needs more patience??!! It's just habit kicking in and you have lots of tools now to see through this :)

I will give you the first 3 questions now. As always, please answer only from your Direct Experience and with complete honesty.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

Much love

x

[Helene]

Hello fran
Did have a little sunshine this morning , but later dull and windy .
You so right , it is the thoughts that get carried away , especially when things appear a little tough .
Years of habit to break .
Still finding it difficult to describe sometimes in words .

Not really with it today so am going to answer the questions when feeling a little more focused and comfortable if that's ok .
Hoping you have had a nice weekend
Helene x

[Bambaji]

That's absolutely fine honey, thanks for letting me know

Go gently

Love

Fran x

[Helene]

Hello

Question 1
There is no 'self , just life . 'I ' only exists because of years of previous beliefs . It has no existence within direct experience .
Very aware that I have held on to the identity of 'me' , guilty of never questioning or looking closely to what was really going on .
There can be no independent self that is ever separate from what is ever happening .
Having the notion of self has led to insecurity but is only a concept , idea or image .

There is no separate agent within 'me', but an Illusion created ...layers upon layers of different 'Is' ...the mum , the specialist nurse ..beneath lied my opinions and beliefs and a little further down 'labels'
Believing that 'I 'was a separate entity to everything else .
How very wrong .... nothing is separate from anything else.

Question 2
The illusion of separate self is a set of beliefs that is fixed and unchanging , an inside core described as 'me'.
A 'self ' that remains the same despite noticing that thoughts,feelings,perceptions and sensations change every instance .
This creates the need to hold on tightly to what is perceived as 'me'.
Within direct experience there is no 'knowing 'and no 'self' to be found . At times it was easy to get distracted , and the attention tended to drift back to 'thoughts'. In time , a clearer view of what was reality 'clicked '..less attention on thinking led to a sense of just 'being ' 'living '...the realisation that nothing is separate .
During direct experience the sense of 'self' just dissolves , like an ice cube melting in the sunshine .

Question 3
To see this allows life to flow , as it is without judgements or need to change or fix anything .
It's as if everything is brighter ,lighter , clearer, richer and peaceful .
It feels amazing .
Just frustrated that I hadn't questioned 'self' many years ago ,( I know fran , this is a thought , but can't find the right words to describe what I'm trying to say .. my apologies )
Like a shiny new lens has been given to view the environment with , allowing me to look and see things more closely .
Focusing on only presence gives a great sense of peace .
Before I started this enquiry , I can only describe the feeling of being confused , maybe a little unsettled .
Like walking through a foggy wood , assuming what I knew was in front of me but unable to be sure .
Hooked upon thoughts rather than looking at what was really occurring .
I can see that theses set of beliefs and possible ignorance has probably led to feelings of fear and uncertainty .
The feeling of inner peace , greater appreciation to the environment has allowed me to at last close the story book that I've held onto for so many years , knowing that this was only ever a story that had been based upon conditioned ideas, thoughts and unreliable perceptions of 'Helene '

Night
Helene x

[Bambaji]

Very nice, thank you - I love the ice cube melting in the sunshine, and closing the story book :)

The final three questions:

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Can you talk about decision, intention, free will, choice and control? What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Love x

[Helene]

Hello
Question 4
Think I was pushed into looking a little further by revisiting the direct experience
Having a guide who has the ability to see the barriers which hindered my ability to just 'look' and suggest excercises that enabled me to gain clarity that there has never been or ever will be an 'i'
To be able to witness just being , feeling ,noticing ..not wanting to change anything .
The recognition that learnt behaviours , beliefs ,thoughts and labels , distort all experiences creating an illusionary narrative which at times can be so very convincing , but is often an inaccurate description of events .
By just looking , experiencing each moment in its pure natural sense , has increased my awareness of just 'living ' forever changing without choice , decision or the desire to control or manipulate .

Question 5
Things happen and occur naturally .
Choice and doing happen , but nobody doing anything .
There is no doer , controller or decision maker no matter how deep we look .No evidence other than awareness of the present.
Decisions and choices happen , but the notion that 'i' decides or chooses is simply a thought .
We navigate through life automatically , there is no 'doer ' to be found .
All that occurs is being present , aware with a strong sense of connection with the environment around us , that is forever changing .

There is no responsibility to be taken when understanding that there is no 'I' as responsibility is just the language used to describe a set of beliefs or thoughts .
From experience the entrenched belief of self creates , confusion , conflict , fear and discontent which creates an unhealthy balance of both body and mind .

Internal thoughts are only thoughts , temporary appearances like TVs ads that cone and go .

Question 6
I can only imagine that this is now just the beginning of my journey . The deeper my my insight arises then the deeper the sense of freedom will be felt .
I'm excited that there is more to see.
Having greater awareness and understanding can only be the starting point to continue to grow and develop .
Huge big thank you fran
Helene x

[Bambaji]

Thank you Helene

I will share our conversation with the other guides and see if they come up with any questions, perhaps see a need for clarification on something that I have missed. This may take a couple of days, but I will get back to you soon.

Take care, go gently. How is your back? I hope you are healing well?

Much love

x

[Helene]

Hello fran
Thank you for your support .
I've been struggling a but since my surgery , just taking each day as it comes really .
I was diagnosed with three conditions about 18 months ago so it's been a bit of a journey really . Certainly much better than I was but it's now having to accept how things are and get used to the fact that I'm less mobile than I was , some days better than others .
Something that I'm trying to accept and remain as positive as I can .
Very grateful that I've made progress , and never take anything now for granted .
Best wishes
Helene x

[Bambaji]

Good evening Helene

A quick response from the other guides, there are no further questions, no clarification needed on what you have so clearly seen :) Well done you, thank you so much for your commitment to the process, excellent!!

Our conversation here is now complete. This may seem like an ending but, as you have already said, it is really only a beginning.

Quite a few things can happen from here, I will send you a Private Message via the facility for this on this forum. you can gain access to PMs near the top of the screen, on the blue bar, near the Search bar and next to where your username shows up. Let me know if you do not find this?

Quite soon our conversation will be moved to the 'Archive' section of LU forum, so if you cannot find it in The Gate, it will be there.

Let me know that you have received my message?

Thanks again

Much love

Fran x