self-delusion

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puthujjana
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Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:12 pm

Re: self-delusion

Postby puthujjana » Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:19 am

Tell me what you see when you observe other people, is there a separate entity running them?
There is no separate entity running other people, they are also without self.
How does it look fro your point of view?
This is an interesting observation. With mindfulness, I have a sense of the other person just being a response to conditions. Some conditions I am aware of by direct experience, some are unknown or invisible to me. When I am lost in thought I see them as a self too. The illusion of "the other" compliments the illusion of "self".

Thank you for your guidance.

Sincerely,
- Otto

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Ilona
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Re: self-delusion

Postby Ilona » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:29 pm

Thank you for reply.

How is it going? What else are you noticing?
Can you say with a big fat YES, it's clear that a separate entity I is an illusion? If not, what else can we investigate?

Sending love
See for yourself.
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/

puthujjana
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:12 pm

Re: self-delusion

Postby puthujjana » Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:13 am

Hi Ilona,

Things are going well. I can answer with a big fat "YES". I can say unequivocally, that a separate entity I is an illusion.

I've had a full day, I'll write more tomorrow.

Kind regards,
- Otto

puthujjana
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:12 pm

Re: self-delusion

Postby puthujjana » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:24 pm

What else are you noticing?
One thing that is really big is I often used to get into long internal monologues, the theme of which was "I am not good enough and I can't do this." This monologue would occur at least once a week, make me ineffective and put me in a foul mood. It hasn't happened once since April 1st.

So, in general, I would say I am more peaceful and happier.

Thank you.

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Ilona
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Re: self-delusion

Postby Ilona » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:11 am

Awesome! That sounds like a deep relaxation.

Here are some 'final' questions for you to explore.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Can you talk about decision, intention, free will, choice and control? What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Please answer in full, when ready.

Much love your way
See for yourself.
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/

puthujjana
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:12 pm

Re: self-delusion

Postby puthujjana » Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:48 pm

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
No, there is no "self", "me"' or "I"' at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form and there never was.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
Watching "I" thoughts arise, it may start with a sensation, for example, someone speaking to "me". The sensation is known and meaning is perceived. The perceived meaning references "me". Feelings arise associated with the thought and more thoughts arise from the feelings and thoughts about these thoughts. This network of thoughts is the illusion of "I".
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
Although it doesn't happen all the time, it frequently happens that direct experience occurs spontaneously. In other words, there is experience without constant judgement and interpretation. The experience arise, persists and passes away without an "I" or a "me" being involved. There is less internal monlogue in general.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
It was the question about inside and outside. Fear had been an underlying theme in my responses to your questions. The question about whether there is an inside and outside in direct experience brought that fear to the front. Seeing that there was no inside and outside and that there was nothing to fear broke the illusion.
5) Can you talk about decision, intention, free will, choice and control?
Decision, choice and intention are kinds of thoughts related to actions. Free will and control are kinds of thoughts related to meaning and interpretation. Conditons make things happen. As conditions are suitable, life continues in the form identified as "me". Those conditions make me breath, make my heart beat and make thoughts of decision, choice and intention arise.
What makes things happen? How does it work? ... Give examples from experience.
I am writing a response to these questions. There are countless conditions that give rise to this action. Some of the conditions are thoughts like "It is beneficial for me to answer these questions", "I will answer these questions" and the fingers strike the keys according to conditions of body memory of where the keys are and all sorts of other knowing (and things done without knowing).
What are you responsible for?
Thoughts, actions and feelings can be helpful, neutral or harmful. Cultivating decision, choices and intentions that give rise to helpful actions lead to conditions suitable for other helpful thoughts, actions and feelings. While there is no me responsible for things, there are thoughts, feelings and actions and cultivating helpful ones is beneficial.
6) Anything to add?
This is a wonderful process. Thanks to you Ilona and to all those who facilitate this activity.

"May all beings be peaceful and happy. May all beings be free from suffering."

Kindest regards,
- Otto

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Ilona
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Re: self-delusion

Postby Ilona » Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:01 pm

You are very welcome! I'm delighted for you. It's such an non event :)
How are you feeling today? Are there any doubts or burning questions?

Of course this is only a beginning of looking, but from now on you know where to look. There will be challenges as deconstruction and falling of old belief system happen, please use Facebook groups or forum if you need support. You can always write to me :)

Somebody will message you and invite you to Facebook groups.

See you around!
Much love
See for yourself.
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/

puthujjana
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:12 pm

Re: self-delusion

Postby puthujjana » Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:40 am

How are you feeling today? Are there any doubts or burning questions?
Peace and joy, no doubts, no burning questions. There is some diminution of the excitement I felt initially and I have experienced longer periods of getting caught up in thought. But it is fundamentally different in that there is never any doubt that they are just thoughts.

I appreciate the support and will look for the message.

Thanks,
- Otto


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