No. Definitely not on your own. Read again what i asked you for.
i want your help on this, and i secretly hope that it might be the beginning of your guiding others...
love love
vince
Hi Vince,No. Definitely not on your own. Read again what i asked you for.
i want your help on this, and i secretly hope that it might be the beginning of your guiding others...
love love
vince
Hmm, i have had a couple of others check (all) the links, and they had no problem.and then got the same error message as before.
Hmm, i have had a couple of others check (all) the links, and they had no problem.and then got the same error message as before.
Do you have a different browser to try ? Are you in Windows using Internet Explorer ? ..or Apple, using Safari ? Perhaps try Google Chrome or Firefox.. ..or even try clearing your browser cache if you don't have an alternative browser installed. Have you got a tablet (iPad, etc) you could try ?
Failing that, i don't know what to suggest.
We will go back to what we were doing, & i'll meditate on an opening...
Try copy and paste the link into your browser.Yes, I tried other browsers, cleared everything, even paused all my virus protection to see if that was doing it. No luck!
Try copy and paste the link into your browser.Yes, I tried other browsers, cleared everything, even paused all my virus protection to see if that was doing it. No luck!
v
You recognize that time is a concept.Good evening Moo, Let's start with a summary of where i think you are. (and you polish it in reply)
You see clearly that the self is a construct. A story.
I Recognize, yes. When I don't understand, I resist accepting on any level with the exception of acknowledging that I don't understand and probably am not equipped to do so.You recognize and accept the greater mystery of how things work.
Yeah. "I" just take credit for the information that comes down the pipe.You see that There is no decision, intention, free will, choice, or control.
I don't believe I have seen what is greater than me.I have trouble accepting the idea that I have "created" the world. I get confused when I read things like, "objects don't exist". I understand that my comprehension of objects is based on the mind's subjectivity, but some-thing is there, does exist. The concepts I associate with them, use to identify them, are not real, but the "thing", whatever it may be, is there. As for God, if there is one, it sure has some explaining to do! I believe something is there that is certainly bigger than all I can perceive, whether we name it God or whatever. I struggle to understand why it made the choice to create anything including us.You may have seen that what is greater than you, an external agency, is something that you have created. (of course, acknowledging the mystery - there maybe is god)
Yes, definitely.You see clearly that thoughts, mind has no inherent credibility.
(This is probably the most tangible change for me on awakening. The frustration that precedes anger, and the anger itself has almost completely faded. It used to be a daily occurrence.) [/quote]You have experienced; "Today for example, I completely obliterated an intense rush of anger by asking myself, "who is feeling this anger?" and, "Who does this emotion serve?"The examination made the sensation go away! Once it went away, I couldn't remember what the heck I was even mad about. It was kind-of amazing."
Seeking anything seems like a waste of time. I would have to trust my mind, which is nearly always false and based only on my limited sensory impressions and logic. Self seeking to know self, but self doesn't exist; dog chasing it's tail. So I'm taking your advice and focusing on looking and recognizing what is not as it arises. I"m hoping that I will "see" what "is" by process of elimination of everything that is "not".You still seek what is true.
Try this; The experience of time is a combination of the experiencing of certain sensations and mental experiencing of conditioned perceptions that can only be found in ideas about 'before and after'.It's hard for me to wrap my noodle around the ideas surrounding the reality of time, but I get it on a superficial level..
Yes yes. i agree. ..and i don't need to. i gain nothing by thinking that i might get to know how it works. (although i do remember getting a buzz out of thinking that by getting enlightened, that i would join an exclusive club of people that KNEW. Hahahaha)probably am not equipped to do so.
Ooh, i love this one. Created the world is good, but simplistic.I have trouble accepting the idea that I have "created" the world.
The quickest way through this bit, is firstly to realize that there is no absolute with this stuff. There is no doubt that it will change (for the 'better') but how fast depends on conditions.but I'm still getting angry every day and definitely losing the battle (home remodeling angst).
Yes, for me too, it rises like this. ..but humor totally evaporates it before anyone gets hurt.It's just fury, pure and unstoppable,
Well, it's certainly a diversion.Seeking anything seems like a waste of time.
Nah. That's illogical.I"m hoping that I will "see" what "is" by process of elimination of everything that is "not".
?Try this; The experience of time is a combination of the experiencing of certain sensations and mental experiencing of conditioned perceptions that can only be found in ideas about 'before and after'.
All of this is useful stuff, and it is even necessary to be able to negotiate this consensual reality.
Remove the story component, and can there be any experience of time ?
Without doubt (in this mind) new discoveries about time are very likely. (black holes and all of that stuff.)
..anyway, if you can't experience time without the support of mental manipulations, does it have any inherent existence
probably am not equipped to do so.
If you did find you were able to understand in a way that others do not, you would consider that a gain? What if the understanding wasn't what you thought/hoped it would be? Would you still consider it a gain?Yes yes. i agree. ..and i don't need to. i gain nothing by thinking that i might get to know how it works. (although i do remember getting a buzz out of thinking that by getting enlightened, that i would join an exclusive club of people that KNEW. Hahahaha)
I have trouble accepting the idea that I have "created" the world.
See, this is where you really lose me. First, why is seeing something at a distance an illusion?Ooh, i love this one. Created the world is good, but simplistic.
While it is true (in my story) that your perception of the world is the result of brain activity. It actually happens in the brain. To see something at a distance, is a fantastic illusion produced by the brain. It's very useful. ..but the experience is entirely the experiencing of the organism. Now a little bit of a jump. (just a little one) From the experience of the inner being the experiencing of the apparently separate, we jump into YOU ARE THE WORLD. What exists except experiencing.
I don't understand how approaching something apart makes it become inner, nor how hugging a tree and evoking emotion makes it less of a tree.Approach anything that is apparently 'apart' and it becomes inner. Move towards a tree until you are hugging it. ..and it becomes sensation (and emotion) It is no longer a tree. It is no longer separate. It is your senses stimulated and interpreted by a brain that tells emotion to flare...
but I'm still getting angry every day and definitely losing the battle (home remodeling angst).
The extra stress in your life at the moment, makes it more likely to happen.
The very best is a rotflmao. Sustained for at least 90 seconds. If the stomach contracts convulsively, the hormones (oxytocin) released is both valuable and pleasant.If you practice you can convulse the stomach whilst pretending to the (apparent - grin) world that there is no humor being experienced.This has the effect of changing the reward for the anger into something else. If you keep a record (scratch IIIIIIII into the wall) you will get a good picture of improvement.One way to short circuit is put that recognition, not only on the recognition that you 'lost it', but on the opinion (judgement) that preceded the anger.In the beginning this recognizing the opinion might happen well after the 'event'. Soon it will start happening during. Then it will happen occasionally, before.The opinion pose, will trigger the recognition stuff.You'll see the opinion rising, and burst out laughing. ..and it will be gone.It was just the way conditions were being blown around. They changes while it was being observed.
It's just fury, pure and unstoppable,
This sounds a lot like suppression to me. You can't just laugh and expect there to be any change, any more than me being angry would create any change. It's not enough to to sublimate emotions that arise naturally; in this case I need to suck it up and deal with the problems that have suddenly appeared. I'll save the de-conditioning laughing for when I discover my choices were wrong again and that I'm screwed no matter what I do. I was able to diffuse my anger a little just by reminding myself that I have no control, so any decision I choose is really irrelevant. I have to deal with this stuff right now; I am beyond forming any judgements and know my emotions serve no purpose--but I had to get there! I had to change the story because I got very hung up on keeping up the anger. It lasted longer than I anticipated this time, but I saw it come and go.I think I believed it would somehow facilitate some kind of resolution, as an adult I know it won't.Yes, for me too, it rises like this. ..but humor totally evaporates it before anyone gets hurt.
Seeking anything seems like a waste of time.
Well, it's certainly a diversion.
Exactly!If you identify as a seeker, then you will never find.
Yes, this is what I'm referring to when I say I am focused on looking rather than seeking; being more aware and noticing awareness itself.If you also give up looking, if that is looking for, and also gave up looking at ..and occasionally noticed that seeing was happening... (and watching expectations as they arise) Can you imagine this ?
I"m hoping that I will "see" what "is" by process of elimination of everything that is "not".
Actually it's quite logical, and is just another way of saying looking and recognizing seeing rather than seeking.Nah. That's illogical.
I would argue that perhaps the monster was out to lunch at that time, but that's just the way I thought as a child.....So you are referring to the snake vs. robe illusion. I get it, and it supports what I was saying perfectly. Maybe the words are just getting twisted and creating confusion.Here's a great story another guide told that rebuts your idea.Pretend your a child and you have a monster that lives in your closet. To you, it's real. Because you believe it's real, you are of course responding with fear. You may not be seeing what's really there because there is a filter on top of what you're seeing, you're wearing "monster glasses". But you haven't yet gone into the closet to actually look, it's too scary and you just know it will get you. One day, you find the courage to open the door and physically look in the closet, and what do you see? What you see is not a "no monster" or a "monster," what you see is some shirts, a basketball, some boxes. So of course the monster didn't die or cease to exist, it just was no longer believed to be real. What remained is what was there.
Yes, you are agreeing with me again, even though you say you disagree! Anyway, thanks for making me smile today. I hope you have a good one.The key to this whole thing is simply looking.
Hmm, whether others do or do not, there is no gain (or loss) for me.If you did find you were able to understand in a way that others do not, you would consider that a gain? What if the understanding wasn't what you thought/hoped it would be? Would you still consider it a gain?
There may well be 'things' out there. The point is that ALL experience is internal.don't believe that "things" don't exist outside of my experiencing them.
i'm not saying that they don't exist. i am saying that their existence is of your doing. Whatever they actually are, is unknowable. All we can know is our experiencing.I apply subjectivity to something that already exists;
At a distance, direct experience of a tree is color. (maybe sound) Hugging it becomes a tactile experience. (maybe smell too) It was only ever a tree in the mind.I don't understand how approaching something apart makes it become inner, nor how hugging a tree and evoking emotion makes it less of a tree.
Obviously you are somewhat lost in this story.More very serious things to deal with in all aspects of life than I can handle at one time.
Definitely not suppression. It isn't the laugh that evaporated the frustration/anger, it is the recognition that it is happening that does this. With that recognition, comes a clear seeing that it is habit kicking in, and that it serves no practical purpose.This sounds a lot like suppression to me. You can't just laugh and expect there to be any change
If you did find you were able to understand in a way that others do not, you would consider that a gain? What if the understanding wasn't what you thought/hoped it would be? Would you still consider it a gain?
.Hmm, whether others do or do not, there is no gain (or loss) for me.If i gained (just language) understanding that i previously didn't have, and there was benefit here, then the concept of gain may be relevant. ..but gaining understanding is intellectual. A better description might be; If i recognized something that i was previously ignorant of, there may well be improvement in experiencing.
don't believe that "things" don't exist outside of my experiencing them.
Isn't there a whole brand of yogic practice devoted to fake laughter? Anyway, next time I'm feeling bad, I will certainly give it a try. For now, I'm happy to say the ice has broken and I'm finally smiling again.There may well be 'things' out there. The point is that ALL experience is internal.
Yes, I understand that.
The idea that it is 'out there' is an illusion created by the brain. How is this relevant ? It becomes relevant when suffering enters. When we have an opinion about something. When we forget that what we are frustrated by, is our own projection.
Other than that, then forget about it. It has no relevance.
I understand that frustration is a projection based on our own perceptions and judgements. However, if we are referring to an actual object, like a tree. We attach concepts to it, but whether or not we are able to perceive it, we did not "create" this living earthly thing, right? It is born, exists, and transforms through decay in spite of us, whether we acknowledge or perceive it, not unlike that planets in the universe. They are out there, whether we have discovered them or not, and we did not "create" them; in discovering them, we may objectify them but we did not create them. So, are you saying that this is a misconception? Am I wrong in believing that I don't create objects as a projection of my mind?
I apply subjectivity to something that already exists;
i'm not saying that they don't exist. i am saying that their existence is of your doing. Whatever they actually are, is unknowable. All we can know is our experiencing.Don't jump to an absolute. Everything is relative.
Ahhh, okay! I get it. "their existence is of your doing" meaning my understanding of them. Thank you! You know, all the old masters write things in such a way as there is much room for skewed interpretation. It is so helpful to dig up these old questions and clarify.This one has bothered me for so long.
I don't understand how approaching something apart makes it become inner, nor how hugging a tree and evoking emotion makes it less of a tree.
At a distance, direct experience of a tree is color. (maybe sound) Hugging it becomes a tactile experience. (maybe smell too) It was only ever a tree in the mind. Of course, many people may experience what the mind imagines rather than directly experience sensory stimulation.
So here you are merely referring to sensory interpretation. Gotchya.
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