Learning about being guided and guide others

[blackh]

Hi Nat,

It's really great that you've seen there is no doer!

What's true for you now?

Is there a you that is the observer of experience?
Is there a you that performs actions?
Is there a you that owns your life?
Is there a you that makes decisions?
Is there a you that creates thoughts?
Is there a you that is hurt when people are not nice to you?
Is there a you who feels emotions?
Is there a you 'in here' and a world 'out there'?
Is there a you who likes or dislikes chocolate?
Is there a you who is good at something?
Was there a you who signed up to be guided on LU?


Steve

[Natcola]

Dear Steve,

What's true for you now?

What is true for me now is that there is no you there is a body and body sensations and there is thoughts. Thoughts is trying to make us believe there is an "I" when there is none, there never was one....

Is there a you that is the observer of experience?

No- the observer i though i was once is gone for good. Never reappeared.

s there a you that performs actions?

No- body movements and thoughts...

Is there a you that owns your life?

No

Is there a you that makes decisions?

No- thoughts

Is there a you that creates thoughts?

No

Is there a you that is hurt when people are not nice to you?

No

Is there a you who feels emotions?

No- emotions arises through thought process

Is there a you 'in here' and a world 'out there'?

No

Is there a you who likes or dislikes chocolate?

No

Is there a you who is good at something?

No

Was there a you who signed up to be guided on LU?

No-lol
Nat

[blackh]

Hi Nat,

Wonderful!

How does it feel to see this? Write lots!

What has changed since you started this inquiry at LU?

Are there any areas of doubt or confusion? Any questions?

Do you feel there is anything to be got that you haven't got yet?


Steve

[Natcola]

Hi Steve,

How does it feel to see this? Write lots!

Steve, I have always known it but have never been able to "stay" in that knowledge. Somehow i was letting my thoughts take over and convince me otherwise.
I have been suffering from a fairly bad back pain for the last 2 days among other things. The funny thing is I am able to see irs just body sensations and thoughts. It feels great actually. Should I say "liberating"? :)

What has changed since you started this inquiry at LU?

More peace. I actually feel more peaceful because there is no I involved anymore....

Are there any areas of doubt or confusion? Any questions?

No there is none whatsoever. Very clear to me now.

Do you feel there is anything to be got that you haven't got yet?

No I actually have realised what I wanted :) and more actually....
Thank you Steve :-)))
Nat

[blackh]

Hi Nat,

It's lovely to hear this!

We have some questions we ask here to help make sure you've got everything you need and I've done my job right. Would you like to answer those now?


Steve

[Natcola]

Certainly Steve


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[blackh]

Gidday Nat,

Here are the questions:

1. Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
   Was there ever?
2. Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
   Describe it fully as you see it now.
3. How does it feel to see this?
   What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
   Please report from the past few days.
4. What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
   ­
   ­
5. Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
   What makes things happen?
   How does it work?
   What are you responsible for?
   Give examples from experience.
6. Anything to add?

Steve

[Natcola]

Hi Steve,
There is no self or me or I anywhere, anyway shape or form. There is a though of a self created by thoughts only.
2. The illusion of separate self is generated by thoughts and only lives in the thought process when it benefits those thoughts. The thoughts have created this illusion of self giving us therefore an illusion of a life for that self. For me with my thought process it created a life with more thoughts and body sensations. To the point where we do not know that there is no self. Our mind goes along with this though of a life and self and the thoughts are protecting it as the more we believe it the more thoughts are created.
3. It does feels liberating.... a sense of relief that it was all in my thoughts and that there is no such thing as a me or a self. A sense of complete peace really is perceived.
The difference from before starting this dialogue is that I had an inking what the truth was but I was not grasping it totally so I felt I was in and out sort of speak. The past few days have been interesting as there is no need for excitement. Excitement is another thought process or emotion rising. We are excited when not knowing the truth and suddenly having glimpses but not grasping it. Once you get to the truth, complete peace then is there. Nothing else. And every thought or emotions is perceived without any attachment as it is just another though or emotion.
4. That last bit that made me look was the tiredness of looking and believing in a self. Somehow I was not attached to lose it anymore as I knew the self was not the answer.
5. Decision or intention come from the thought process that there is a self and a thought comes up creating a problem ,fear or anything else. Then the next thought is in order to "save" the self a decision needs to be made.
Free will is also the same as the thoughts makes us believe there is a self who "has" and "deserve" a life. There is no self having a life so no free will free will also arises from thoughts.
Choice is the same principle.
Control is a thought process making us believe there is self to control by constantly creating thought of fear and lack. Or love and abundance- it's all the same, thoughts.
What makes things happen is the thought process and emotions and body sensations or movements.
I am responsible for nothing for there is no I.
From experience: I have a pain in the back. It's a body sensation. Nothing else. There is nothing attach to it or need to do anything. There is no stories or consequences to it.
As I understand that there is only thoughts and body sensations, there is less thoughts produced. Peace is the overall feeling. There is no "need" anymore as there is no I to believe in.
I have nothing to add Steve but if I do I will send it to you.
I enjoyed this experience tremendously and would love to be able to help other people to "see"
Thank you Nat


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[blackh]

Hi Nat,

The illusion of separate self is generated by thoughts and only lives in the thought process when it benefits those thoughts. The thoughts have created this illusion of self giving us therefore an illusion of a life for that self.

How are thoughts benefitted? Do they have volition? How does all this work?

Decision or intention come from the thought process that there is a self and a thought comes up creating a problem ,fear or anything else. Then the next thought is in order to "save" the self a decision needs to be made.

I just want to understand this a bit better. How do thoughts (and therefore decisions) come about?

Can you explain the bit about "saving" the self a little more?

Control is a thought process making us believe there is self to control by constantly creating thought of fear and lack.

If there is no self controlling, how does the appearance that there is a self controlling come about?

Thank you!


Steve

[Natcola]

Thank ylou Steve.

How are thoughts benefitted? Do they have volition? How does all this work?

I guess I used that "benefitted". No Thoughts do not have volition. Thought just come up. As body sensations just come up. Thoughts are generated from the mind. There is no organisation to it just the mind generating thoughts.

I just want to understand this a bit better. How do thoughts (and therefore decisions) come about?

Thoughts are generated by the mind. The mind uses the vision and any other senses (body sensations) or emotions to create thoughts. The mind will see something and generate a thought: for example: I see a dirty cloth. The mind will generate a thought: 'it has to be cleaned' according to what it saw.

Can you explain the bit about "saving" the self a little more?

The mind creates thoughts. Emotions arises. Sometimes emotions could be fear emotion : in case of an attack by my cat: i have the emotion of fear that she will scratch me. the emotion arise when I see her starting playing rough. The emotion is created by what I saw. The mind then will create the thought "I have to protect myself as I can get hurt"

If there is no self controlling, how does the appearance that there is a self controlling come about?

No appearance that there is a self, just an illusion of thought. The mind creates a thought that there is a self to control and protect. Only thoughts no truth to it.
Steve I hope I was clearer in my explanations so you can understand and help me better. :)
Nat

[blackh]

Hi Nat,

Thank you once again...

Thoughts are generated by the mind.

What is the direct experience of 'mind'?


Steve

[Natcola]

Hi Steve,

What is the direct experience of 'mind'?

The mind is experienced thought thoughts. For me the direct experience would be when a thought present itself.
Nat

[blackh]

Hi Nat,

Thank you! I'm going to present this to the other guides to check my work. There may be further questions.


Steve

[Natcola]

Thanks Steve. To add to this you have been very helpful and gently bringing me back to where I had to answer the questions. I appreciate your style to help me.
Nat

[blackh]

Hi Nat,

The other guides are happy so that's the end of the formal guiding process. It's been a real pleasure and a privilege guiding you!

Soon you'll receive a private message on the forum, so check the "Private messages" at the top - you'll see a message come up there. This is from one of the admins who will invite you to join a Facebook group called LU Aftercare. There you'll find others in the same boat, so it's a great place to share experiences, ask for help, and inquire about other paths of inquiry if you want to take things further. I highly recommend it. I joined Facebook just for that and I'm glad I did.

I'll also send you a private message with my Facebook link.

One thought I'd like to leave you with: You've dropped an idea of "self". I say, resist the temptation to replace it with another concept. There one concept in particular I'd warn against - the idea that "I am awareness". This is a subtle form of selfing that can lead to a feeling of aloofness from experience and a kind of spiritual bypassing in which you're "untouchable". I suggest you take the opposite approach and dive right in to experience. Immerse yourself in the good with the bad!

I hope you do decide to get into guiding! There's a shortage of guides and I think you'd be great at it. Guiding is also very good for you - it helps to strengthen your seeing of reality.

See ya on the flip side!


Steve