Looking for a guide to explore the changes of life

[Ingen]

Adam,
don't worry about delay. Try look for self in short moments while you are busy with other things, and especially when you are stressed and busy with real life stuff. Not in order to get it better, just out of curiosity. And not from a position of "I already know there is no self" – because you don't. :)

[adam_brunt]

Ingen,

Try look for self in short moments while you are busy with other things, and especially when you are stressed and busy with real life stuff.

Thankfully, while I am work I have many opportunities to ask myself "Is there a self? Can I find one right now?"

This has been interesting for me to do because it brings up a calm, yet joyful feeling to see what happens. I have been looking and reading through conversations from this forum and the app. I feel the attention on this effort has a settling effect on the awareness of the body. It was surprising how calm I felt from an apparent result of this activity. The calm felt like it came from energy not being put into thoughts that came up. When thoughts did come up they were like a distant echo from a weakened scaffolding of identity. Like rain hitting the hot ground, they appeared then were not there in a short amount of time. I could feel in my interactions with coworkers that there was less feeling of identity attached to what i was saying in conversation. Even if it was an annoying or stressful situation, the stress and annoyance was very weak and trailed off quickly. In this looking I could see how certain thoughts were connected to a narrative that refers to the collection of feelings, memories, and thoughts of things that Adam knows. This was in contrast to other times where I did not see what I was feeling or thinking as directly to Adam. They were just there. When there was no sense of those sensations and feelings belonging to Adam, then I usually heard or noticed very many thoughts. Just gentle sensations or feelings that seemed simple and obvious.

My son was born last month and is now 7 weeks old. This is my first time being a parent and it has been so interesting going through this looking again while I learn about his needs and see his identity develop.

It is challenging for me to put these things into words. I hope it is not frustrating to be on the other side of my words. I think I am a lazy typist honestly! It is not a strong skill of mine, so my communication with this form is not nearly as accurate as if I was speaking in person. In this process here though I am appreciative of the opportunity to challenge myself to be more clear with words.

What about the times when it feels like you ARE here? What is going on then?
It sounds to me like you are trying to reach a special state of no-self.

The times that I feel like I am here seem to be when I am uncertain about something. A worrying action comes in to try and solve the uncertainty. If I am worried about an outcome it feels like Adam is trying to take control rather than just let things be uncertain. It is not necessary to work on a solution because that will just happen in a fine way without the illusion of a doer. In those times I just look at the thoughts, if there any, and let the body look at the connection to feeling, then I see there are just thoughts happening in a way that does not need to have Adam thinking them. HE never does.

I'm not sure how I would reach a special state of no self. The whole point is to see that there is no special state. That is just an idea about various notions of enlightenment which seem attractive and idealistic in conception. Seeing that there is no self is being clear about what is always present, not what passes momentarily. Isn't it true that LU is about seeing that there is no separate self?

Is there a self when you ARE snagged by thoughts, or you don't feel relaxed?

Something that really hit me today on the head was realizing that along with what I am not being any,thoughts, feelings, or sensations, that I am not my memories! This really shifted something in my body! Like i cut a strong anchor from a boat, I could feel less attachment instantly to my feelings, thoughts, AND memories. The memories are the history that gives strength to the story around Adam. Clearly realizing that memory is off the table was incredible.

Even when the story around Adam feels real, I do not feel as snagged by it. The story is not real because the story is only thoughts. Stories are temporary collections of events that happened from a certain perspective, but that perspective is a movement that is not permanent.

take care

Adam

[adam_brunt]

This :

When there was no sense of those sensations and feelings belonging to Adam, then I usually heard or noticed very many thoughts. Just gentle sensations or feelings that seemed simple and obvious.

Should read:

When there was no sense of those sensations and feelings belonging to Adam, then I usually did not hear or notice very many thoughts. Just gentle sensations or feelings that seemed simple and obvious.

I did a read through before sending, but looks like I missed something. Sorry about that!

Take care,

Adam

[Ingen]

Thank you for your thoughtful answer! It is important to be precise, because the illusion "likes" to hide in unclear places like "seems to" and "I guess..". If you should notice these words, look again!

I would advise you to completely stop reading other threads, or related literature for now, and instead concentrate on LOOKING.

I'll pick out one thing:

Clearly realizing that memory is off the table was incredible.

That is a wow discovery indeed. The so-called memories could just as well be imaginations, dreams, hypnotic suggestions, thoughts – weaved into a very convincing story.

Go further into that. Lie down, close your eyes and feel into it. What is there right now, without referring to memory?

- What can you feel about your body form. Which gender are you? Which height, weight, age? How many toes do you have?
- Can you feel a border between "you" and "world"?

Take your time with that, and describe precisely what you feel.

And here is a question from Bill:
Adam, tell me one thing that is not a story?

[adam_brunt]

Go further into that. Lie down, close your eyes and feel into it. What is there right now, without referring to memory?

Without referring to memory there is a sensation of the edge of the skin in contact with environment that meets it. There is hearing, breathing happening. Bodily processes just doing what they do. No thoughts are arising when I close my eyes and feel what is here without memory, so everything in what could be referenced as the space of awareness feels pretty blank and spacious

What can you feel about your body form. Which gender are you? Which height, weight, age? How many toes do you have? - Can you feel a border between "you" and "world"?

When the eyes are closed and attention happens there is no reference to what I am as a gender. I have no experience being a woman and only a cultural experience of being a man. That identity of gender is created through thought, action, words, and needs work to maintain. There is a checking in to monitor if what is being done is manly. I have been through this monitoring process while being aware of what is happening and it is seen as a fabrication.

With eyes closed I can not tell my height, weight, or age without thought. There is a sensation of the body in contrast to what is sensed by it.

And here is a question from Bill:Adam, tell me one thing that is not a story?

One thing that is not a story is looking without thoughts about that looking being in reference to a separate I.

[Ingen]

I'd say you are mostly still not in "looking"-mode, (or, in this exercise, it would be "feeling"):

Without referring to memory there is a sensation of the edge of the skin in contact with environment that meets it

Go further into this sensation. Can you really feel "the edge of the skin"? Can you feel "contact with environment"? Can you feel where the body ends and the environment begins? Is there a border in direct experience?
Go really deep into the sensations, and describe what is left if you subtract the stories

Bodily processes just doing what they do.

Is this something you are feeling, or something you are speculating about?

so everything in what could be referenced as the space of awareness feels pretty blank and spacious

I don't know what you mean by "what could be referenced as the space of awareness". This is an excercise about tactile sensations with closed eyes.

With eyes closed I can not tell my height, weight, or age without thought.

Yes!

There is a sensation of the body in contrast to what is sensed by it.

Really? I'm not sure I understand.

I don't understand the last sentence neither, but I'd say we stick to the very simple excercises:
What is there right now in direct experience?

[adam_brunt]

I go in and out with the looking. When I think I'm looking I'm actually thinking and when I'm actually looking there is almost entirely no thinking at all.

Right now in curvy experience I'm able to look and it feels just like when I closed my eyes and tried to tell what gender, weight, and age I am. Looking at direct experience I can't tell where Adam is at all it feels like he does not exist. There is a slight pressure in the head and hearing, smelling, tasting happening. Thinking is not required to do this but it feels like I could think if it was required. While typing there is some thinking to remember what just happened so that I can relate the information to you.

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[adam_brunt]

Haha! This :"Right now in curvy experience" should say in direct experience"

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[adam_brunt]

Last week there was a period of several days where all that happened was looking. Hardly a thought occurred at all! The past few days there has been more thinking and more second guessing that this looking process is helpful and that it's silly to think that there is no person named Adam. Like an inner critic watching everything. Very uncomfortable shift from last week. I see that the critical inner thoughts are not helpful or what I am, but they have built a nest over the past 38 years! Thank you for the help with looking Ingen. What a wonderful resource this forum is.

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[Ingen]

I go in and out with the looking. When I think I'm looking I'm actually thinking and when I'm actually looking there is almost entirely no thinking at all.

That's ok. The goal is not to remain in a state of "looking" or "no thinking", but in order to find out how the whole mechanism works – how come there seems to be a self once in a while? What is it made of? It is good when it shows up, then you have a chance to catch it in real time. Not in order to get rid of it, just to find out what is going on, from a position of curiosity.

I see that the critical inner thoughts are not helpful or what I am, but they have built a nest over the past 38 years!

It may seem like there is a nest, but is that true? How many thoughts are there in direct experience? Look!

Thank you for the help with looking Ingen. What a wonderful resource this forum is.

You are very welcome! The forum is a wonderful resource indeed.

[Bill]

Adam - I really like your last post.. I could feel you much more from the 'here and now' instead of lost in thought.
Keep the looking up. :)

About stories:
The illusion of “me” is very convincing. But it cannot stand up to examination. Once the mind sees how it’s created, it ceases to have power. It’s like Santa — once you know he is not real, you’ll never write a letter to Santa again. And what happens to Santa when the truth is realized?

[adam_brunt]

Once Santa is understood to not be real he continues to exist in the imagination, but it's understood that there is no Santa, only the story. The story and image has it's place, but it is not really real. The direct experience of Santa are the images, feelings, and thoughts about him and his imagined world.



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[adam_brunt]

In the looking, and from your replies and guidance, I saw that there were certain notions I had about becoming clear on what I am not. I had beliefs that certain things would never happen again or that I would disappear somehow.

What I see now is that I can never disappear. The thoughts, images, feelings, sensations were never something that was being done by anyone, so those will all still come up. It's the association with those phenomena with me at the center that was incorrect. In direct experience when there is no sense of Adam, the phenomena still occur in the mind and body, so they already happen independent of Adam. Adam is just a story that uses those phenomena as details to make the story center around a person with those experiences. In direct experience there are only the sensations, thoughts and phenomena, like an object of a certain color. There is no Adam processing those things, or required to process those phenomena.

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[adam_brunt]

The thoughts about whatever is arising in awareness are not what is directly experienced. For example: In direct experience "warm tingling sensation" is turned into "my left thigh hurts" by thought.

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[adam_brunt]

Even "warm tingly sensation" is a thought but feels less processed

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